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Value Of A Custom Made Football Jig Mold


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#1 sdsaw

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Posted 30 May 2010 - 10:28 PM

Looking for your opinions on the value of a mold that I'm thinking about making for other people if they want their own.
I've noticed that some of they fishermen out here ask where to find larger sized football heads (2,3,4 oz.)
I've looked all over the internet and the biggest that I've seen is a custom 2oz. mold from shawn collins?
I've been thinking about doing this for quite a while now and dove into this project thinking that there is a local market for this type and size leadhead.
For this mold, I decided to make my own mold blank.
I know that do-it has blank molds that are ready for machining but I have other uses for that money 8)
I used some extra 6061T-6 aluminum that we had around the shop and 5 1/2 hours later made these two mold blanks
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I'm limited on my programming abilities when it comes to CNC milling. Each cut has to be on the same plane so the cutter cannot feed deeper or shallower during that particular cut.
The cut has to finish, then I move the cutter deeper or shallower then start a new cut.
I needed to explain that so you don't think that I'm some sort of super CNC machinist.

I made 2, 3, and 4oz. cavities and cut the hook eye cavities so they will accept a variety of heavy duty hooks, both in 60 and 90 degree bends
I used the barb design from the style "9" shad jighead but made the distance between the first barb and the head slightly longer (1/4") to accept a skirt, if desired.
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These are the cavities. I used a ball endmill cutter and cut several circles with a decreasing radius per circle as the depth increased
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There are a couple of drawbacks if you make or modify a mold to accept larger, thicker hooks.
1.- You have a chance for some flashing around the hook which is easy to cut away with your gate shears
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2.- Your smaller hooks might get off center with the mold closed because the eye is no longer being pinched.
I've added these adjustable angles to hold the hooks straight and on center with the head on some of my other molds, including this one.
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...And here are the some of the finished products
2oz. with hooks ranging from 5/0-8/0
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3oz. w/ 6/0-8/0 hooks
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4oz. w/ 7/0-8/0 ...that's a 7/0 to the right but no sample
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Here's a close-up of the barb of these jigheads
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So here's my question: If I were to cut these cavities into the larger size do-it mold blank (3 cavities) how much should this mold be worth, including the $50 mold blank and still be reasonable enough for someone to want? :?

I'll probably have close to or over 10 hrs per mold with the way that I'm doing it. I might be able to shorten the time if I did more than one at a time.
Still planning on adding slots for weedguard pins
I'm sort of embarrassed to tell you how long it took to make this first one :rolleyes:
...But I am happy with the outcome :yeah:

Thanks for your opinion,
Scott

#2 powerworm

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Posted 30 May 2010 - 11:31 PM

man i have no idea what they would be worth but i dont care how long it took you those heads look MARVELOUS!!!

#3 Frank

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Posted 31 May 2010 - 12:41 AM

This is just my opinion on this but I think if you cant get it any other place, maybe you should put what you think it is worth and go from there. That is seriously nice work. Your time is worth every pennie you charge. Nice work. Frank

#4 21xdc

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Posted 31 May 2010 - 06:49 AM

This is awesome work... Give yourself alot more credit. If I had this talent/machines..... I'd never have any time to fish., :lol:

Keep up the great work. I drill out the eyelet holes deep and overfill with red rtv high temp silicone, let dry and cut off flush with a razor blade to fit any hook I want w/o any flash... It also holds the hooks where you want.

#5 TackleResource

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Posted 31 May 2010 - 07:16 AM

I have no need for a football head that big but I'm wondering if I do a custom design if you can put it into a mold??

Great heads by the way! WOW

#6 toadfrog

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Posted 31 May 2010 - 09:25 AM

I have no need for a football head that big but I'm wondering if I do a custom design if you can put it into a mold??

Great heads by the way! WOW


Absolutley outstanding work. The only way to put a price on it is figure time,cost of matterial if you have to purchase it , your hourly wage,wear and tear on equipment ect. After that if you haven't had a coronary you can settle on what you are willing to sell it for. best guess 210 + shipping

#7 sdsaw

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Posted 31 May 2010 - 10:22 AM

powerworm: Thanks man

Frank: Thanks for your opinion!
I've never priced a custom mold and didn't want to price myself out of a potential job.

21xdc: "If I had this talent/machines..... I'd never have any time to fish."
Guess what? I have more desire to create this stuff than go fishing these days!
... what's wrong with me? :huh:
That tip with the high temp RTV is a good one! That's an excellent way to enlarge or move the eyelet cavity. Are you other guys seeing this? :?

TackleResource: Yeah, these are heavy heads. Making them for the saltwater.
As far as your custom design, probably not. I am capable of doing simple mods to the molds such as enlarging/deepening the eyelet areas and adding slots for weedguards. If you require a tapered bottom, then I can't do that at this time. But thanks for asking

toadfrog: Thank you for your guesstimate. I was thinking of a similar figure. If I can get $15-$20 hr. I'll be happy at this time :yay:

#8 TLane4

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Posted 31 May 2010 - 10:41 AM

There is a lot to think about when quoting custom machine work. But if your planning on making these in a production enviroment the price will drop substantially. You shouldn't be embarrassed by your time spent on these first two prototypes. Just things i noticed were that it looked like you took the time to square up all six sides of the blocks. That isn't completely necessary in my opinion. Also the hinge joint you cut into it seems pretty fancy and time consuming. You had to remove a lot of material to get your results. As far as programing goes do you have access to any sort of CAD/CAM program like MasterCAM or GibbsCAM. If so you should look into using that to program your molds. These programs are designed to maximize material removal and minimize cut time with enhanced cutter paths. I don't want to sound critical and i think you have an excellent baseline to start with. I personally have been thinking about making my own molds also. I have a miniature CNC in my basement i picked up from an auction for only $700 ($20000 new) but I'm missing a key piece of software that allows me to transfer the program to the machine.

Good luck and hope to see some product out there soon.

Also keep in mind a standard shop rate. Currently my shop charges right around $70-$75 an hour as a shop rate for a guy to be machining. That covers over head, wages, and things of that nature.

Edited by TLane4, 31 May 2010 - 10:46 AM.


#9 sdsaw

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Posted 31 May 2010 - 11:05 AM

There is a lot to think about when quoting custom machine work. But if your planning on making these in a production enviroment the price will drop substantially. You shouldn't be embarrassed by your time spent on these first two prototypes. Just things i noticed were that it looked like you took the time to square up all six sides of the blocks. That isn't completely necessary in my opinion. Also the hinge joint you cut into it seems pretty fancy and time consuming. You had to remove a lot of material to get your results. As far as programing goes do you have access to any sort of CAD/CAM program like MasterCAM or GibbsCAM. If so you should look into using that to program your molds. These programs are designed to maximize material removal and minimize cut time with enhanced cutter paths. I don't want to sound critical and i think you have an excellent baseline to start with. I personally have been thinking about making my own molds also. I have a miniature CNC in my basement i picked up from an auction for only $700 ($20000 new) but I'm missing a key piece of software that allows me to transfer the program to the machine.

Good luck and hope to see some product out there soon.

Also keep in mind a standard shop rate. Currently my shop charges right around $70-$75 an hour as a shop rate for a guy to be machining. That covers over head, wages, and things of that nature.

Thanks for the tips!
I only plan to machine a handful of these and will not be using a custom built mold blank. I'll be using the larger Do-it blank mold and squaring up three sides (for my reference edges) providing the thickness is parallel (otherwise it will be 5 sides)
This will be something that I will be doing after hours and not on the clock. We quote $90 per hr. at our shop. It doesn't always work out that way but that's the going rate around here.
Best of luck to you if you start making them yourself ;)

Scott

#10 Mags

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Posted 31 May 2010 - 06:24 PM

I think Shawn was doing custom molds for $150, but that was to little in my opinion. I'm guessing $200? The market for really big football heeads is pretty limited. I know some guys use them on Amistad when the fish are really deep. You may not sell too many.

#11 sdsaw

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Posted 31 May 2010 - 08:29 PM

I think Shawn was doing custom molds for $150, but that was to little in my opinion. I'm guessing $200? The market for really big football heeads is pretty limited. I know some guys use them on Amistad when the fish are really deep. You may not sell too many.

Thanks for that. I was hoping that somebody that has priced them would speak up.
Would that $150 be for a single cavity mold?
I remember seeing quite a few single cavity molds on his site.

The fishermen out here use 2-3oz heads quite often to fish straight down over rockpiles, especially in the winter time. They usually have to use banana heads or bullet heads. I happen to feel that the football head is a superior design for this type of fishing.
Hoping to sell just a few molds, if any.
However, I will be able to sell the heads which was my intention all along
I just want to be prepared on the price if somebody should ask ;)

Thanks, Scott

#12 TackleResource

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Posted 01 June 2010 - 02:19 AM

Wait so you could add a barbed color to a Screw Lock Jig for me???

I want to make a Jig that can still have the skirt but has the screw lock to put the soft plastic on it.

Cant find a mold!! If you can make one that way that would be cool or if anyone has seen one that would be awesome too!!

#13 sdsaw

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Posted 01 June 2010 - 08:41 PM

Wait so you could add a barbed color to a Screw Lock Jig for me???

I want to make a Jig that can still have the skirt but has the screw lock to put the soft plastic on it.

Cant find a mold!! If you can make one that way that would be cool or if anyone has seen one that would be awesome too!!

It sounds like it could be possible;
Would the jig be the type that the hook shank runs thru the screw-lock?
I think that you will have to start with a no-collar round head jig mold.
I'm not sure if the diameter of the screw lock will interfere with the skirt area or even if it is long enough to still be buried in the head and still protrude below the collar.

The ring & barb collars don't work for you?
You can also add a second barb opposite side from the first one.

Scott

#14 TackleResource

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Posted 03 June 2010 - 04:05 AM

I just want a regular round head jig mold that has the insert to mold the screw lock in with it.

All shakey head molds do not have a barbed collar to slip the skirt onto it.

If anyone knows where to get one I would buy it right now lol.

like the picture attached but have the stagared barb collar.

Just like the collar on your football head mold!

Attached Files


Edited by TackleResource, 03 June 2010 - 04:06 AM.


#15 sdsaw

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Posted 03 June 2010 - 11:20 PM

I just want a regular round head jig mold that has the insert to mold the screw lock in with it.

All shakey head molds do not have a barbed collar to slip the skirt onto it.

If anyone knows where to get one I would buy it right now lol.

like the picture attached but have the stagared barb collar.

Just like the collar on your football head mold!

It can be done either way:

-add a pocket for a screw-lock to a mold that already has a barb on it

-or add a barb to a mold that already has a screw-lock pocket. If the sole purpose of the barb is to hold the skirt on then it doesn't have to be a double barb. A ball collar or ring collar seems like a better choice

Do you already own either one of these?

Scott

#16 Munkin

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Posted 09 June 2010 - 04:53 PM

It can be done either way:

-add a pocket for a screw-lock to a mold that already has a barb on it

-or add a barb to a mold that already has a screw-lock pocket. If the sole purpose of the barb is to hold the skirt on then it doesn't have to be a double barb. A ball collar or ring collar seems like a better choice

Do you already own either one of these?

Scott


Have you tried pouring in a spring where the basehole pin goes on a D0-It mold? I use to do this on my 3/16oz finesse mold before Do-It started making the shakeyhead molds.

Allen

#17 jerry_va

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Posted 16 June 2010 - 04:41 AM

Thanks for that. I was hoping that somebody that has priced them would speak up.
Would that $150 be for a single cavity mold?
I remember seeing quite a few single cavity molds on his site.

The fishermen out here use 2-3oz heads quite often to fish straight down over rockpiles, especially in the winter time. They usually have to use banana heads or bullet heads. I happen to feel that the football head is a superior design for this type of fishing.
Hoping to sell just a few molds, if any.
However, I will be able to sell the heads which was my intention all along
I just want to be prepared on the price if somebody should ask ;)

Thanks, Scott


Talking about Shawn Collins he must be out of business....can't reach him by phone or email, and his site is down. I need a mold that he was charging $220 for. This was made for 8, 10, 12, 16, and 20 oz No-Roll Style Sinker Molds. These need to be with a #2 eye rather than in-line May need 2 molds for all those sizes, but would be great to get the 12, 16, and 20 oz.

Attached Files


Edited by jerry_va, 16 June 2010 - 04:47 AM.


#18 David_Cooksey

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Posted 18 June 2010 - 12:04 PM

Hi i am interested in a mold that will do Football Weedless style jigs
in the following sizes:


Contact Info:
Treasurehunterenterprizes@yahoo.com Main E-mail address



Mustad 32786BLN, Mustad 32798BLN, Owner 5317, Gamakatsu 291
in size 4/0 or 5/0 and 6/0

1 of each size per pour

1/2oz 4/0 or 5/0
3/4oz 5/0
1oz 5/0 or 6/0
1 1/2oz 6/0

mold must be able to use DO-IT pins for weed guards



WEED GUARD
DIAMETER NUMBER of STANDS

FG-30HB Black
.024




20




Sincerely Dave