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A Couple Questions On Building A Hunting Crank


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#21 RayburnGuy

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 05:07 PM

Makes sense Mark. Will have to give that a try. Thanks.

Vic, I never knew until now what was causing me to wobble when I walked. Wonder if duct tape will stop the wobble? :?

Ben

#22 littleriver

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 05:30 PM

Ohh,, Hi Ben.
You know, I wasn't going to call anyone out on this but since you brought it up........Why haven't you thought of this sooner? How is it hanging?
:D

#23 RayburnGuy

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:31 PM

Ohh,, Hi Ben.
How is it hanging?
:D


Low and a little to the left. :teef:

#24 mark poulson

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 08:20 AM

Some people are allergic to the adhesive in duct tape, so be careful!

#25 ninjalake

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 07:46 PM

WOW..... you guys are too scientific for me. I know how to make a hunting crankbait. And I will tell you that I have not found a way to consistantly make a crankbait that will hunt. Some do and some don't. It is part of the allure of making these beauties. But, my success rate at building one is pretty high. I won't tell you how I do it, but I will tell you that you can toss all of this special off center weighting and stuff out the door. So build your baits as true as possible. Plus... don't worry about the thickness of your clearcoats. It can affect how it hunts, but it will not affect whether the bait will hunt or not. The shift in the action is not severe. It is a subtle shift and it is not predictable. In all of the years that have been making crankbaits there has only been one person that has gotten it right on how to make a crankbait hunt. It was a Japanese pro. And he hit the nail right on the head.

Skeeter


You know how to make a crankbait hunt, but you won't tell us how you do it? Gee thanks.
Seriously, why would you even post that?

And also- "In all of the years that have been making crankbaits there has only been one person that has gotten it right on how to make a crankbait hunt."? Only one person? I think there's alot of old crankers in Tenn & NC who would seriously disagree with that statement.
who are you referring too? Or our you not going to tell us that either? Hajime Oguri?

Edited by ninjalake, 12 October 2012 - 07:47 PM.


#26 ninjalake

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 07:52 PM

@rayburnguy- slightly off topic from how to make a crank hunt, but....The best hunting crankbait ever imo is the waddlebaits by imakatsu. it's got a wonky blade that spin's 360 deg, mounted between the rear treble and the body. It's by far one of the most innovative features i've ever seen on a crank.
But It's probably only a matter of time before some big company like strike king comes along and rips off the idea.

Anywho- check this out-

Edited by ninjalake, 12 October 2012 - 07:55 PM.


#27 Skeeter

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 09:36 PM

ninjalake,

Correct, I am not going to tell. The reason is because I have spent countless hours and a lot of trial an error learning what I know. As you can see from this post, there are a lot of guys trying to figure this out. They work very hard and spend much time at what they do. Just look at how many posts RayburnGuy has put on this site. He is a true devoted craftsman. Since you pay such close attention then I'm sure you noticed that I did mention some things that I think they can eliminate from the equation. I don't mind helping but I won't lay it all out on a plate for anyone. Besides, I am not the all knowing. Someone here may have come up with another way to get baits to hunt. I am just like you... I am waiting for them to just tell me how it is done so I don't have to work at it anymore.

As far as "I think there's alot of old crankers in Tenn & NC who would seriously disagree with that statement."..... what do they know? They just fish them, not make them. If these guys know so much, then I am sure they would be glad to tell you how it is done. Or maybe one of them would be kind enough to join the site and share all of their knowledge with the rest of us. All of us here at TU have enquiring minds. :)

As far as the Japanese pro that got it right....I am keeping that to myself also. His name is not important, but his thought was.

Skeeter

Edited by Skeeter, 12 October 2012 - 09:48 PM.


#28 RayburnGuy

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:29 PM

I may be different from a lot of people, but I don't want anyone to give me step by step instructions on how to build a crankbait that will hunt. I wouldn't feel like I had earned, or learned, anything that way. There are a few people on this forum who have figured it out and several of them have given me hints as to what they feel is right or wrong. I don't think there's a thing wrong with them wanting to keep certain things secret. I doubt anybody gave them a step by step list in how it's done. I may never figure it out, but that's OK too.

Before I retired I was a fabricator/welder and was damn good at my job. If I wasn't the best craftsman on the job site I could sure hold things down until he got there. Over the years I taught quite a few guys who were just starting out how to read blueprints, weld, fabricate pipe and steel, do erection and equipment installation, and so on. The first thing they had to do was prove to me that they wanted to learn and were willing to work at it. If they couldn't do this then I put a grinder in their hands and it stayed there. I feel the same way about building lures. I may, or may not, figure out how to build a crank that will hunt, but it won't be because I didn't put in the effort.

There have been several posts about the waddle bait you mentioned Ninjalake. I think it was LittleRiver (Vic) who built some and believe he posted a picture of one in the gallery. For my intent and purpose I don't consider that a hunting crank though. It may have an action that's similar, but a true hunting lure doesn't have any need of added hardware. I do appreciate the offer though.

Ben

#29 benton B

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 07:33 PM

Glad to see you back in action Skeeter, reminds me of the old TU. I learned all I know about building cranks from Skeeter and the pearls of wisdom just like that post.

ninjalake, make some prototypes and try different things, it's not that hard to build a bait that will hunt a little. I figured it out after 3-4yrs of building baits.

#30 RayburnGuy

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 11:29 PM

Glad to see you back in action Skeeter, reminds me of the old TU. I learned all I know about building cranks from Skeeter and the pearls of wisdom just like that post.


I've been doing a good bit of reading in the archives again and Skeeter definitely has some pearls of wisdom in there. I've learned a lot about deep cranks from Benton B as well. His deep cranks were the main reason I decided to give building them a try.

I'm glad your posting again as well Skeeter. Look forward to learning some of your tricks of the trade.

Ben

Edited by RayburnGuy, 14 October 2012 - 11:32 PM.


#31 blackjack

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 08:14 AM

Who are all these old time crankers from NC and Tenn that are making baits that hunt??I constantly read and hear about the elusive "hunting crankbaits" yet have yet to see more than 2 builders baits that hunt. I know one in NC and one in Tenn, Both of them used to frequent this site and offer up their wisdom on a regular basis, Skeeter is one of them, JawJacker is the other. Marty B has it right, build some baits change around the weight placement, line tie placement, lip angle and see what gets you closer to your goal. These are your shortcuts!

#32 mark poulson

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 09:55 AM

Well, I have never met anyone who has succeeded in life who didn't get help from someone else.
I don't mind sharing what I've learned, especially since most of what I know about lure making I learned here at TU from others who chose to share.
So....the moving ballast behind the belly hanger works.
Once you think about it, it produces a controlled instability, since the amount of movement of the ballast is limited by the length of the crosswise shaft, and how many BBs are used.
I made a test lure, threw it in gin clear water yesterday, and it hunted. It swung from one direction to the other in 2' swings.
It actually swam for bit, switched direction and swam the other way for a bit, and then switched back and forth that way all the way back to the boat.
It moved approx. 2' on the direction change. At first I thought it was doing a slow roll, but I had several other boaters check it out, and it was not rolling, just changing direction.
The side to side bore hole I used was 1/4", and the two BBs I used were 5/32", so they both went past the centerline of the lure on the switch. I'm thinking a 3/16" bore would keep the BBs single file, and maybe make the side to side quicker and less of a swing and more of a darting action.
That's my next prototype!

I use PVC trimboard for my cranks. If you use wood, try to find a plastic drinking straw to like you bore holes so the BBs move freely.

Edited by mark poulson, 15 October 2012 - 09:58 AM.


#33 spoonpluggergino

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 12:20 PM

I do not know if this helps but I know that if you look at the old Bomber or waterdog baits they all hunt. you can find this old baits on e-bay

spoonpluggergino

#34 spoonpluggergino

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 10:00 PM

Here is another idea that i have been thinking about that may work for a hunting bait. Think of a boat and trailer if too mutch weight is at the rear of the trailer the trailer will fishtail from left to right
my two cents

Gino

#35 ninjalake

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 11:09 AM


@blackjack
I wasn't referring to people who build & sell lures specifically, I was referring to cb fisherman in general who know how to modify & tweak their cb's to hunt. I'd say there's hundreds. (But it was probably more prevalent in the 60's-80's than now).
To quote David Fritts himself: “I think it’s safe to say that the fishermen in the High Rock area know more about crankbaits and crankbait fishing than anyone in the country,” Fritts said. “And I’m not talking about myself; there’s a world of good crankbait fishermen and people who mess with crankbaits in my home area.”

And I think perhaps you (and BentonB ) have me confused with the OP. I'm familiar with a variety of different methods for making crankbaits hunt. I'm only 34 but I've been throwing crankbaits since i was 10 and have been blessed to have learned from some incredible fishermen. No big names, just old timers who whittled all week & fished all weekend. Growing up in Florida, I think I was about 12 when I was taught some of the more simpler techniques like bending a line ties, driving a small nail tip into the head, shaving lips & bodies, etching grooves, etc.(but to be honest, most of the time we just ruined our grandads lures lol).
I love cb's. CB's have captivated me to a point where it's almost unhealthy. So much so that I even studied hydrodynamics courses through MIT. But I'll be the first to admit I'm much better at altering baits than building em.

I'd also like to apologize if I came off rude. I sent a PM to skeeter directly, apologizing for the way I replied to his post. This being a bait building forum where folks share & learn, It just seemed weird that one would chime in to just to say "I know how but I'm not telling". Im new here & dont know the ropes, but after reading lots of older posts it made sense to me that some techniques are held sacred and just aren't given out so freely.
And I can respect that.
I know a bit about crankbait dynamics, but I still consider myself a rookie and feel I have a long way to go. I look forward to learning from others here, sharing their ideas & knowledge on the subject. And hopefully one day I can contribute something cool as well.

Edited by ninjalake, 16 October 2012 - 11:14 AM.


#36 mark poulson

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 12:59 PM

ninjalake,
You said what a lot of us were thinking. I didn't think you were rude, just abrupt. And it sounds like you handled the whole thing very well in the end. So it's no harm, no foul.
I guess finesse comes with age. Or maybe it's just that we lose our punch as we get older. Hahaha

I'm sure there are a lot of ways to make a crank bait hunt. I just found one, by buying a clear KDV 1.5 and seeing how Strike King does it on mass produced lures.
The overall idea of building a lure that is right on the edge of instability always struck me as a really iffy proposition, with too many variables.
I'm not a crank bait designer, by any means, but I am a problem solver, and I am thrilled to have found a way to make a crank bait hunt that can be duplicated, and isn't too complicated.
And I think I owe it to the members of TU to share with them, since they have shared so much with me over the years.
To me, this site is all about sharing and learning.
I'm glad you found us.

#37 ninjalake

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 01:27 PM

Hey mark,
I meant to comment on your previous post, about the side to side ballast/balls. I love it man. I've always just set the ballast higher, some baits I'll drill through the ballast and past it, then fill it in with lead. I've thought of the side to side shifting ballast you mentioned but have never tried to build one. I was actually thinking of making a track/tunnel in the shape of a smile, or upside rainbow. My theory being that you could control it with a quick burn or shift in the rod, and that it might also cause the bait to hunt higher or lower diagonally. Just haven't thought of a way to drill a 1/4 circle tunnel.
I recently came across a unique square bill that sort of reminded me of your previous post, this little guy- http://www.tacklewar...page-ARC65.html

It seems to have a soft ball rolling around in it's head. It's either a rubber ball or soft tungsten & gives a unique thump instead of a knock/rattle. The walls on it are extremely thick as well and the tone is slight and deep. It also has what appears to be a screw in its face above the line tie. This crank will hunt in a unique way, in that it appears to be drunk, for lack of a better description. Where it really shines is in its deflection properties, that sucker will hit a rock and deflect as much as a foot. It's very lifelike. If you've ever had an aquarium with wood or rocks(especially wood) you'll see fish do this, as if they're trying to scratch an itch, hard. It drives the alpha fish in the aquarium crazy and he immediately keys in on said itchy fish. Why it drives em crazy, I have no idea, but it does, regardless of species.
Sorry to get off topic. Thanks for sharing that, now I want to go disect a KVD :)

Edited by ninjalake, 16 October 2012 - 01:29 PM.


#38 mark poulson

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 04:53 PM

I checked out the square bill at TW. Very nice, but very pricey.
I'm thinking you can get the same muffled thud by using a lead split shot as a moving ballast ball.
I had thought of using a sst setscrew to add ballast in small amounts in very specific locations, or even installed vertically, so I could move the center of gravity of a lure up or down to adjust it slightly, but I never followed through with the idea. Too lazy.
Maybe fish mark their territory like bears and deer.
Don't dissect it, just buy a clear one that you can see through, like the sexy ghost minnow.

#39 RayburnGuy

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 05:03 PM

I checked out the square bill at TW. Very nice, but very pricey.
I'm thinking you can get the same muffled thud by using a lead split shot as a moving ballast ball.
I had thought of using a sst setscrew to add ballast in small amounts in very specific locations, or even installed vertically, so I could move the center of gravity of a lure up or down to adjust it slightly, but I never followed through with the idea. Too lazy.
Maybe fish mark their territory like bears and deer.
Don't dissect it, just buy a clear one that you can see through, like the sexy ghost minnow.


I wouldn't say your lazy Mark. There's just too many lures and too little time. :drool:

Ben

#40 mark poulson

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 05:54 PM

I wouldn't say your lazy Mark. There's just too many lures and too little time. :drool:

Ben


Hahaha. You're too kind!