Mold Release For Lead - And A Lead Project

[CNC Molds N Stuff]

Ok, technically not a "fishing lure" project, but maybe some useful information.

Yesterday:

I don't know how they will work out, but I have been working on a mold today to make my own decoy anchors. Figure I'll use some of the linotype lead I have laying around for these. Its a little harder than X-Ray lead. I am hoping the molded ring is strong enough to do the job. My target is 4 to 4.5 oz. I calculated the volume, and did the math, but some things are just hard to figure exactly.

Today:

Some of the anchors I just finished. I need to do a few more, but I think I am going to hold out for some more linotype lead. I may sell this mold and make one slightly larger.

With the linotype lead I head they only came out at 3.55 to 3.57 ounces. With X-Ray lead they came out at 3.77 to 3.80 ounces, but it is much softer lead. The linotype seemed to pour a little better too.

I guess I messed up the math or forgot to account for something somewhere.

These are awfully shiny. I would like to coat them, with something dark and flat in color, but I have not decided what yet. Maybe just a simple metal primer, flat green enamel, and mat clear coat. Just rattle can stuff for simplicity.

If you are doing some lead casting, yes the old, "blacken the mold with candle smoke" trick does work. I had heard that some of the expensive mold release agents for metals where graphite based, so I went and bought some spray on dry graphite lubricant. I have to say it worked a lot better than candle smoke. More than half of the anchors fell out, and half the rest popped out very very easily. The only issue I had was that when I sprayed on a second coat (probably unnecessary as the anchors were still popping out easily) I had some little bumps and clumps that I had to blow out when I realized they were affecting my anchors.

Fabulous Blaster. Less than $5/can at Home Depot.

[cadman]

Well Bob,

So you are a cad designer and a machinist. I'm impressed. Your mold and the pieces that you poured came ouit beautiful. Job well done.

As far as painting goes, if you don't care about color. I found out years ago, that etching primer works phenominally on lead. I used to spray all my jigs with etching primer and then I would paint them. Then I went with etching primer and powder paint, only to figure out that powder paint didn't need a primer. Well I went to strip a few jigs back then, and I got the paint off but could not get the etching primer off. Soooo if you want a really durable coat you can use etcing primer. I believe it comes in gray and white.

Out of curiosity, did the graphite spray leave any oily residue on your homemade decoys? Reason I ask is I have used some in the past, and it really screwed up my powder painting. I really didn't want to degrease everything, so I stopped using it.

Edited October 21, 2012 by cadman

[CNC Molds N Stuff]

I didn't notice any greasy or oily residue or feel to the finished anchors. The graphite goes on wet, and dries quickly. I don't think they use an oil base in this one. Wouldn't make sense to use a graphite lubricant and then add oil that wil hold dirt.

[cadman]

Thanks for the reply, I will try some when I run out of my (2) cans of Drop-Out.

[CNC Molds N Stuff]

P.S. When it comes to CAD and machining I am just a self taught hack... Well self taught with the help of hundreds of people on the Internet. LOL.

P.P.S. I use denatured alcohol for a final clean after brushing on aluminum before I weld. I imagine it would work as a degreaser for other things as well. Only problem is that it evaporates super fast.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Bob La Londe

[CNC Molds N Stuff]

Based on your description of etching primer...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dupli-Color-Paint-Self-Etching-Primer-Flat-Green-12-oz-Aerosol-Ea-DAP1690-/330813142339?forcev4exp=true&forceRpt=true

... this stuff might just be the ticket for my anchors. I think one of the auto parts chains sells Dupli-Color brand touch up and matching paints. I'll call around tomorrow and see if I can buy it locally.

[cz75b]

Wow, very cool.....with Linotype, the loop stem might be more brittle than something made of a softer alloy.....might consider a design with an insert space for a wire loop like some sinker molds....Lino doesn't bend like pure lead or even wheel weight metal, it snaps off clean under stress.

[cadman]

P.S. When it comes to CAD and machining I am just a self taught hack... Well self taught with the help of hundreds of people on the Internet. LOL.

Well you can't be all that bad if you actually came up with a solid model and then made a mold. What software did you use? I use Solidworks

P.P.S. I use denatured alcohol for a final clean after brushing on aluminum before I weld. I imagine it would work as a degreaser for other things as well. Only problem is that it evaporates super fast.

a couple of minutes to dry.

Yes denatured alcohol would work, and the expediency of quickly flashing off is a plus. I have used isopropyl alcohol, and it works as well just needs a couple of minutes to dry.

Edited October 22, 2012 by cadman

[cadman]

Based on your description of etching primer...

http://www.ebay.com/...e&forceRpt=true

... this stuff might just be the ticket for my anchors. I think one of the auto parts chains sells Dupli-Color brand touch up and matching paints. I'll call around tomorrow and see if I can buy it locally.

I looked at the can I have and the first one was a NAPA brand and the second one was Duplicolor. I remember both of them working really well.

[CNC Molds N Stuff]

Solidworks is a little much for me right now. If I actually made a lively from it maybe... I have heard lots of good things about Solidworks, and its not as expensive as some of the other alternatives.

I do all of my 3D work with ViaCad 2d/3d V7. I haven't even sprung for the cash to upgrade to V8. I can import .STEP files generated in Solidworks and modify them then export them as STLs to go in my CAM software. Most of my simple 2D work I just do directly in my CAM software. I do have to do a few little "tricks" to get where I am going sometimes.

Good to know about the etching primers. I think Checker (now O'Reilly) has Dupli-Color, and we do have a handful of Napa stores in town. I was thinking if the Green primer doesn't look to bad I might try it by itself or with a mat finish clear coat. Where-ever I wade to place decoys I'll be stomping them into the mud, but a few places I pefer to just toss them over the side, and I don't want a shiny decoy spooking off my supply of fly tying feathers. LOL.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Bob La Londe

[Guest Gangel]

Usually, after being in the water for a day or two, they'll lose the Shine and turn gray like wheel weights. Doesn't take long. If you'd like, you should get a hold of me for a different decoy weight system.

[cadman]

Solidworks is a little much for me right now. If I actually made a lively from it maybe... I have heard lots of good things about Solidworks, and its not as expensive as some of the other alternatives.

I do all of my 3D work with ViaCad 2d/3d V7. I haven't even sprung for the cash to upgrade to V8. I can import .STEP files generated in Solidworks and modify them then export them as STLs to go in my CAM software. Most of my simple 2D work I just do directly in my CAM software. I do have to do a few little "tricks" to get where I am going sometimes.

Good to know about the etching primers. I think Checker (now O'Reilly) has Dupli-Color, and we do have a handful of Napa stores in town. I was thinking if the Green primer doesn't look to bad I might try it by itself or with a mat finish clear coat. Where-ever I wade to place decoys I'll be stomping them into the mud, but a few places I pefer to just toss them over the side, and I don't want a shiny decoy spooking off my supply of fly tying feathers. LOL.

Bob,

You are correct, Solidworks isn't ungodly expensive for all that it can do. However there is a lot to learn to get to be proficient at it. I have been designing in cad for 30 years from cad software to cad/cam software mainly in sheet metal. I would say that if you had no tech'l background probably you would need about 3-4 years to learn everything from scratch. If you are a machinist or a shop guy probably about 2 years to get really fluent at it. I send out a lot of STEP files to our vendors and it works really well. If you have any questions or need some help on a cad file (solid file) shoot me an e-mail and I will see if I can help you out.

[CNC Molds N Stuff]

I might hit you up for some help in sheet metal design and layout... I want to build some small aluminum boats, but some of the cross sliced curves are escaping me as to how to mark and measure. I can draw them, but I can't figure out how unfold and flatten them and take off measurements that I can transfer (loft) onto the sheet metal.

I can always build to fit, but I think it would go much faster if I could precut everything and then fold them up and weld. I suppose I could always make pywood version first and then cut them up to work backwards from.

I think we should save that for another conversation though.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Bob La Londe

[cadman]

I think we should save that for another conversation though.

Let me know when you're ready and we'll get it done.

[CNC Molds N Stuff]

I stopped by O'Reilly Auto Parts today, and they do stock the Duplicolor line. They had several cans of the flat green Self Etching Primer on the shelf for $6.99. I bought one, and tried it. I was a bit liberal with my use of it on the anchors, but one can completely covered 65 anchor just barely with 3-4 thin coats.

On top of that I liked the color. Its pretty close to green pumpkin. It would make a good worm weight color.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Bob La Londe

[cadman]

I stopped by O'Reilly Auto Parts today, and they do stock the Duplicolor line. They had several cans of the flat green Self Ecting Primer on the shelf for $6.99. I bought one, and tried it. I was a bit liberal with my use of it on the anchors, but one can completely covered 65 anchor just barely with 3-4 thin coats.

On top of that I liked the color. Its pretty close to green pumpkin. It would make a good worm weight color.

Gald it is working out for you.

[Kasilofchrisn]

Those do look good Bob.

I am sure that design will wotk good for anchoring your duck decoys.

I recently purchased the Do-It J weight mold to make decoy weights, I also bought an egg sinker mold and rigged some decoys Texas style.

The one question I have is when you use those style weights how do you secure then to keep them from tangling in your decoy bag? Just curious thats all.

I was thinking a guy could make them removable and use a snap swivel system to attach them before tossing them out or something like that.

I decided to try the J weights and use some black surgical tubing with loops on thew ends secured with hog rings. That way I can hook them over the keel and the stretchy tubing holds them in place.

[CNC Molds N Stuff]

I'm probably going to go with 400LB black mono which should help some. I have rubber cord now, but its awfully limp. As to no tangle... I don't know. I grew up just jump shooting potholes, I have only ever hunted over decoys once before, so I have little experience with managing them. I was thinking about making some drop in bags or boxes that hold each decoy separately in front and behind me in the canoe. (I sit in the middle kayak style) I won't be hunting any deep water so I won't have a lot of line out. Pulling should go quick enough. Last year I only hunted one day, and I only setup twice. I am not going to be running hundreds of decoys like some folks. I have 60 +/- if you count feeders, and most places I probably won't put them all out.

[tbrinlee]

Ok, technically not a "fishing lure" project, but maybe some useful information.

Yesterday:

I don't know how they will work out, but I have been working on a mold today to make my own decoy anchors. Figure I'll use some of the linotype lead I have laying around for these. Its a little harder than X-Ray lead. I am hoping the molded ring is strong enough to do the job. My target is 4 to 4.5 oz. I calculated the volume, and did the math, but some things are just hard to figure exactly.

Today:

Some of the anchors I just finished. I need to do a few more, but I think I am going to hold out for some more linotype lead. I may sell this mold and make one slightly larger.

With the linotype lead I head they only came out at 3.55 to 3.57 ounces. With X-Ray lead they came out at 3.77 to 3.80 ounces, but it is much softer lead. The linotype seemed to pour a little better too.

I guess I messed up the math or forgot to account for something somewhere.

These are awfully shiny. I would like to coat them, with something dark and flat in color, but I have not decided what yet. Maybe just a simple metal primer, flat green enamel, and mat clear coat. Just rattle can stuff for simplicity.

If you are doing some lead casting, yes the old, "blacken the mold with candle smoke" trick does work. I had heard that some of the expensive mold release agents for metals where graphite based, so I went and bought some spray on dry graphite lubricant. I have to say it worked a lot better than candle smoke. More than half of the anchors fell out, and half the rest popped out very very easily. The only issue I had was that when I sprayed on a second coat (probably unnecessary as the anchors were still popping out easily) I had some little bumps and clumps that I had to blow out when I realized they were affecting my anchors.

Fabulous Blaster. Less than $5/can at Home Depot.

I am using that in both silicone and aluminum molds now. No issues to speak of except what I have listed before. It is fairly easy to spray too much on and have to come back later with a brush and dust it off. Adhesions pretty good and it seems to last quite a while between coats.

Tony

[RayburnGuy]

As far as tangling goes couldn't you just use a strip of soft lead as an anchor? That way you could just roll up the anchor line and wrap the lead strip around the keel, or neck, of the decoy. Some marker buoys are made this way. Just a thought.

Ben

[Kasilofchrisn]

As far as tangling goes couldn't you just use a strip of soft lead as an anchor? That way you could just roll up the anchor line and wrap the lead strip around the keel, or neck, of the decoy. Some marker buoys are made this way. Just a thought.

Ben

They do make an anchor like that. It is called a strap anchor and you can buy the mold for a reasonable price.

Some people are not fond of it though as it can rub and scratch the decoy paint around the decoy necks.

http://do-itmolds.co...ategory&path=89

I would think if Bob uses slotted bags with a slot for each decoy he should not have any issues.

Like I said earlier they do look great and should hold really well.

Personally I just bought the Do-It Keel Hook or "J" weight mold. Then I am using rubber surgical style tubing on the end of my decoy line to hold it tight to the keel.

http://do-itmolds.co...y&path=89__2079

Another option is the Texas rig style I did some this way this year. You use egg sinkers in the 4oz size or larger depending on your decoy size.

You hook a dozen or so decoys to a D shaped Snap ring for easy carry.

I would bet Bob cold rig his this way if he wanted to.

Anyway I think Bob's mold is a good one and certainly better than the old standard mushroom Anchor mold.

Edited October 25, 2012 by Kasilofchrisn

[CNC Molds N Stuff]

The one potential problem I see with the Texas rig is line length. Must be a lot of duck hunters hunting really shallow water from what I am seeing in the demos.

[Kasilofchrisn]

The one potential problem I see with the Texas rig is line length. Must be a lot of duck hunters hunting really shallow water from what I am seeing in the demos.

Yes that design is primarily for shallow water areas. Say 4' or less. That is a common depth for puddle ducks who feed off the bottom quite frequently.

There is another version that allows you to double the line length by having two lines put together with a swivel or whatever in the midle. You then attach the middle swivel to your carabiner. I would think that design would not be as convienient to use as the original design.

Lots of ways to rig a decoy. Everybody has their personal favorite.

I still think it's cool you can design something like this and then CNC a mold for it.Wish I had the equipment and skills.

I would love to someday have some larger saltwater jig molds made.

Who knows someday I just might pay up to get them done.

[Guest Gangel]

^{That's why buying the line "bulk" allows you make the line as long as you want. In my experience from the guys I'm dealing with, 5 foot is about the limit. The bigger problem they are running into is lightweight sinkers. Hard to find a balance between easy carry in and drift away size.}

[cadman]

Just to bring this thread back up to the top. Bob, I powder painted and baked the sample you sent me and so far there was nothing that I saw that would dissuade me from buying this product. For about $5- $6 a can it is worth a shot. I have not tried any as far as pouring goes, so I'm curious to see how well the lead pours through it. For the cost of a can it is cheaper than Drop-Out. As mentioned I still have (2) cans of Drop -Out to use up. However I do have this thread copied, so I can refer back to it when I need to . Thanks for posting the thread and the legwork.