Why Are Prices All Over The Board?

[Guest Gangel]

Ok, after 4 years, and a few dozen sellers/makers/users of fishing "lures", I've come up with the same thought... nothing is in the same place, nothing is the same price, and everybody thinks they've come up with something new.  When I'm talking to people, and getting a feel for things, I can't ever get a straight answer.  I ask people, depending on what they are, "What are you willing to pay, what would you like to pay?"  If it's someone painting jigs, I get stammers.  If it's a buyer of rapalas I get "50 cents".  Everybody wants "exact", but you can't pin them down to anything.  Why is this?

[smalljaw]

I may have my answer wrong but it is very hard to understand exactly what you are talking about. I think you are trying to understand why jigs prices and lure prices are totally different from 1 maker to the next and you hear that there is something "new" which warrants price yet you don't really see why it would. You get stammers asking someone who paints jig what price they should charge because the biggest cost is time and it is very hard to gage what a person should charge for their time.

[Guest Gangel]

I want to get the prices THEY want to pay... I've talked to 5 "jig" sellers in the past 3 months.... I know they are paying high for the hooks and lead... and time... I ask what they want to pay per, say, 1/8 ball jig on a mustad nickel hook... I get nothing... and I tell them to lowball me... and I get nothing.  I know what these people are paying... I know I can do better, or point them in the right direction.  But I get nothing.

[FishAction]

Sounds like you're wanting to sell and would like them to tell you a price to charge them.  If you're trying to start selling, a better approach would be asking what products they want or need.  Finding out the unmet need gives a focus for your beginning.  Then research prices on the market, not by surveying your intended customers. 

 

You comment "I know I can do better" needs explaining.  Build a bettter jighead, make it cheaper, etc?  People take pride in their products and skills and may slam the door if you're telling them you can do it better.   Have you thought about sending a jighead and let them make a decision? 

 

There's lot's of choices, prices, and varying degrees of quality in the products on the market.  A well made product meeting the desires/needs of buyers and not priced too far above the market norm will get you started if that's your goal.

 

If I didn't understand you correctly in your above posts, then please clarify. 

 

Charlie

[Guest Gangel]

I mostly deal in ball head jigs.  Popular, easy to deal with.  I know the options, the flavors, the in's and out's.  I ask them what brand, size, and color hook they use.  I then ask them what they would be willing to pay per jig at various levels of "doneness".  Either they don't believe I can produce the product, or they think I'm just screwing around.  I know for a fact that some

[smallmouthaholic]

Send them your official price list- wholesale/ retail on your official letterhead- include your website address. Otherwise you're not being recognized as a legitimate manufacturer and/or businessman.

[Guest Gangel]

I can't find the edit button, but I'll add I know I can get the stuff made/produced cheaper than what most are buying the plain hooks for.

[cadman]

Gangel,

    Not to be disrespectful. But I just had a guy on another forum ask me for a price on a round head jig painted with a hitchhiker. I gave him a price I charge. He told me he coul get it cheaper somewhere else and if I dropped my price, he would give the order to me. I told him "sorry I wasn't interested".  So he was shopping for prices. I'm a custom builder if you are looking for cheap prices don't go to a custom builder. I don't want to sound arrogant, but he was looking for 20 piecec. Honestly I wouldn't waste my time after the conversation he and I had. All said and done I would lose money on the order. So why would I even entertain ther idea? I give everyone the benifit of the doubt, however after doing this for 8 years, I can tell right away who the problem customers are going to be. JMO

[Guest Gangel]

Now this is exactly what I'm talking about. In your case it was a custom job which I can see the price as being different for everyone. From hook sizes, colors and type and style of paint. But if a person wants say 2000 unpainted roundhead 1/8 ounce size 1 570 Eagle claws, which is pretty popular I should be able to give him a quote on that they should be able to tell me what they're willing to pay or are paying now. P.S. Not to be mean or anything but this isn't an invite for orders. I want to play by the rules. I'm not an actual "business" yet.

Edited January 28, 2013 by Gangel

[smallmouthaholic]

. I want to play by the rules. I'm not an actual "business" yet.

Sorry but-What a surprise Save yourselff some time and money . You're not going to be able to compete w/large manufacturers of round head ball jigs w/ Plain-Jane 570 hooks. Spin-cast operations spit them out by the 1000's.

 

Custom work costs money. You won't get rich manufacturing custom products on a small scale but it beats sitting on your butt watching t.v. If you;re going to manufacture products that everyone else does then you'll have to be the cheapest to get your foot in the door which is a recipe for disaster trying to operate a legitimate,start-up tackle company.

 

I  wish you good luck but know your numbers before you take the plunge. There is a tremendous difference between your net vs. gross profit- especially when Uncle Sam gets 10% of gross profits every quarter in excise taxes.

[Kasilofchrisn]

I would have to agree with what others have said.

It is not what they are willing to pay but what you are charging. Figure out your cost add a small profit and that is your price. If they want what you sell for your price then make the order. If not then it wasn't worth it to them or you.

When you order supplies they don't ask what you want to pay. The catalog or website has a set price and you can accept it and order or go elsewhere. If the quality or service is lacking then you can make the decision on whether or not you will continue to deal with that vendor.

I don't always order from the cheapest vendor. Service and quality make a difference to me and those things cost them more money.

Set your ow price and stick to it. Is it really worth it to break even just to sell a few jigs?

[Guest Gangel]

Define is it "worth it"?  With the price swing I've seen, I think it's really worth it.

[Guest Gangel]

I don't plan on competing with the casters.  And, I might add to all this, the excise tax never, ever takes away from your profit.  You can't think of it like that, because it doesn't.

[Kasilofchrisn]

Define is it "worth it"?  With the price swing I've seen, I think it's really worth it.

A lot of times people figure the cost of materials but forget to add in some $ for their time. Then they find out they are making minimum wage or less for all this time making stuff. They also often forget things like the time and expense of smelting old wheel weights or other cheap lead sources. Those free tire weights you may have are not exactly free as they do not turn themselves into ingots.

Also anytime spent making jigs is less time spent with family,friends or doing our favorite hobbies such as fishing.

[RayburnGuy]

I don't plan on competing with the casters.  And, I might add to all this, the excise tax never, ever takes away from your profit.  You can't think of it like that, because it doesn't.

 

I'm not a wire baits guy, but I did run a successful business for over 30 years. Every penny that is paid out to someone takes away from your profit. It doesn't matter if it's money spent on supplies, labor, equipment or in the form of local, state and federal government taxes. If taxes suddenly disappeared would you have more money to spend on the things important to you or would it just disappear along with the taxes?

[JSC]

"I don't plan on competing with the casters.  And, I might add to all this, the excise tax never, ever takes away from your profit.  You can't think of it like that, because it doesn't."

 

I am really haven a hard time understanding this statement  ... Guess all those years in biznez did not educate me that way.

 

Not tryin to be smart just would like to understand from where you are comin from.

 

[smallmouthaholic]

I don't plan on competing with the casters.  And, I might add to all this, the excise tax never, ever takes away from your profit.  You can't think of it like that, because it doesn't.

I would love to have the 10% excise  tax on gross profits I've paid to  Uncle Sam over the past 6 years.

[Guest Gangel]

Ok, here goes.  I know some are still going to shake their head at this logic, but in MY years of research and classes and reading, this is how I see it.  Like I said, this is totally how I see it.

 

 

You start out making a widget.  For this "sample", we'll say this widget has a 10 percent excise tax.  You say "I could make this widget, and sell it, and make 10 percent profit on it".  So you research, prices of materials, production, and all the other little things.  You find out what the market is charging for said widget, highs and lows, along with quality differences.  You find out that materials for your widget are going to cost you 50 cents.  Production, 20 cents.  We are now up to 70 cents.  You know the price in the market for your widget is 1.10.  You minus the excise tax from that, (for this sample, we'll go with 11 cents.  I know it's not "exactly" that, but the numbers work easier.)  So, your widget should cost, with profit, 99 cents to make.  99 cents minus 70 cents is 29 cents... minus the 10 percent profit on 99 cents... NOT 1.10.. as you aren't paying out the excise tax out of your own pocket.. per se... it's only if it sells... which would put you at 10 cents (again, rounding up)  which leaves you with 29 cents for inventory increase, loss, and taxes.  (once again, rough numbers)  But from this, I hope you see how Excise tax is not taken from profit, as it was never really yours.  Excise tax isn't an expense, on the sellers end.  It's an expense on the buyers end.  Granted, the people who don't pay the excise tax may "make more profit", but we know that's short lived.  And if they aren't paying the excise tax, we also know they aren't getting the best prices for the materials.  As most places the materials charge more for the smaller lots, and pre-charge the excise tax. 

 

If we didn't have the excise tax, do you really think the price of stuff would stay priced the same as it is now?  I have a hard time believing that. 

 

I know you're sitting there shaking your head, thinking I have no clue.  And I'm fine with that.  I do it on my end with some of the stuff people say and do out here... and I'm ok with that. 

 

Here's an example of what I've seen... Hagens and Jann's.... you price out their pre made jigs... and there is almost 3 dollars difference... how can that be?  Everything is the same... is one taking a less profit? 

 

And another thing, since I'm on my soapbox... A business shouldn't make money for a good 3 years after starting.  Yeah, I know, you'll disagree with me there, if  you're supporting yourself with it... but still, if you're supporting yourself, you're not making money, all the time.  Just a thought. 

 

I like to play Devil's advocate... gets things moving.. and it breaks up the same "what paint should I use" questions... 

[dlaery]

Hagens is a manufacturer and a source for people who sell tackle and Jann's is not a manufacturer and they sell primarily for the consumer.

[dlaery]

Here's an example of what I've seen... Hagens and Jann's.... you price out their pre made jigs... and there is almost 3 dollars difference... how can that be?  Everything is the same... is one taking a less profit? 

Hagens sells a 1000 pieces to make a dollar and Janns sell 100 pieces to make a dollar.

[dlaery]

I looked up a 1/8 oz leadhead with a #2 bronze hook on Janns and you can buy 10 - 10 packs for $9.49

In Hagens you can buy 1/8 oz leadhead with a #1 bronze Mustad hook for $111.55 per 1000 plus excise tax

On this example Hagens is higher than Janns. Differences are that I can see, Mustad hooks are higher than Eagle Claw hooks, but Janns doesn't say what brand of hook. I know of a company, not a manufacturer, a wholesaler, that sells this same thing for $5 per 100 and no excise tax. "Go Figure"

[smallmouthaholic]

I like to play Devil's advocate... gets things moving..

 

 

So - cut the rhetoric, get your E.I.N. and form 637 signed by the I.R.S. and charge into the fishing tackle business.

I like to play Devil's advocate... gets things moving..

 

 

So - cut the rhetoric, get your E.I.N. and form 637 signed by the I.R.S. and charge into the fishing tackle business.

[JSC]

I understand a little more of where you are comming from.

In the Tackle Biz you have to include the Excise Tax as part of your selling price  everyone exept one Company I know does it this way the one that does it different (or they did for years) quoted you a price then at the end of the invoice they added in the 10%...

 

If a company wants to sell it for X price and it sells why cnahge?  They know how much they have to sell it for to stay in Biz  ...

 

3 years before a Profit is generaly the accepted time .

[gonfishn]

Very well put "Hook", can't get no plainer than that.

[ING]

If prices for everything going up, why fishing staff should be an exception?

When people stop buying, prices will collapse, but I don't believe that fishermen stop fishing and buying there tackle.

Creating a "new" product (the same or sometimes worth quality vs. "old") it is one from many ways to raise prices level.

Good sample of that trick it is Russian vodka.

Initially it was Moskovskaya - good  wheat product.

First step - decreasing of quality Moskovskaya and initial (good) Moskovskaya get the label "Stolichnaya". ( For higher price of course!) Through several years quality of Stoly (for Russian consumers) drops again and the best became "Posolskaya" ( means " For Ambassadors) - the same old good Moskovskaya but more expensive, etc...

Edited February 3, 2013 by ING