flippinfool Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 040 stainless steel spinnerbait wire ? All I'm trying to do is form a loop and solder it to it's self to keep the loop from opening. I have yet to find an answer anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljaw Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 I found a cool thing that I'm trying right now but I'm doing it with .035 wire. I'm taking a single 3/16" bead which is oversize compared to the uni bearings I use for the clevis. I take the large bead and ream out the hole, with the hole bigger I can put some epoxy on the wire and on the inside of the bead and then push the bead up the wire, if you bend the loop right you should be able to get the bead up far enough that the joint where the loop meets the shaft is completely sealed. Once the epoxy is set up I'm going to see hoe strong it is by trying to remove the bead, if this works it will be an easy solution to your problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 It depends on what definition your applying to the word "solder". If your talking about using lead or tin based solders like those used for electrical work then the answer is no. There are other types of solder though. I have successfully used a high grade of silver solder to solder stainless together. Unfortunately I don't remember the name, or silver content, of the solder. One thing you will need to take into account is that the bond between the stainless and silver solder will only be as strong as the silver solder. Silver solder with higher amounts of silver will be stronger and the higher the silver content the more expensive it is. I would suggest you do an online search for "soldering stainless". (without the quotation marks. If you have any more questions I can help with just holler. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basseducer Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 I once saw a video of a couple guys making chain male shark suits. They were using a table top spot welder to seal the rings. I thought that would be perfect for sealing the end loop, but I haven't succeded in finding a small unit. I don't know what kind of volume you are doing, but it might be worth it on a large scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljaw Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 How about the simplist solution, the lock bend? I hope the pictures I post come out but this is easy to do and the bend in the pics look sloopy as I undid a loop on another spinnerbait to show how this works so it will look messy but done on fresh wire it looks good and only takes a few seconds once you know how to do it. What you do is before bending your loop, you take 1/2" or so of the very top and give it a bend either left or right, whatever you're comfortable with. Once you have your left or right bend take a needle nose pliers and hold the base of the bend and use the upper part of the round nose to make an downward bend. Once you have those done you use your round nose pliers to make a normal spinnerbait loop and go past the wire shaft, manipulate the loop so the shaft is lined up with the little latch you bent before making the loop and then bend back making the latch flush with the wire shaft, look at the pics and you'll see what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 Rayburnguy, is right on the money when it comes to soldering stainless. You also need special flux and the mating parts have to be grease free and clean. Soldering stainless steel is only effective for small work, not for projects that require strength. In all honesty, stainless steel should be welded for maximum metal fusion. However I know that is not an option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basskat Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 I've tried every solder know to man without much of any luck. Nothing tried was strong enough to hold. The higher grader silver would hold but was not strong enough to hold a fish. I tried welding but my skills as a welder were lacking and my welder is a piece of junk. One of the guys at work could do it on a high dollar welder but that wasn't a permanent solution so I dropped my hair brain project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 The only way I know of to weld something as small as a piece of stainless wire is to use a TIG rig. I've seen guys who were good enough with a heli arc rig that they could weld a hacksaw blade back together. And it looked just as good as any weld you would see on thicker pieces. Of course the weld broke when the hacksaw blade was flexed because the heat from welding destroyed the temper of the hacksaw blade. But it is possible to weld very thin pieces of metal together if you have the right guy behind the welding hood. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted February 22, 2013 Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 The only way I know of to weld something as small as a piece of stainless wire is to use a TIG rig. I've seen guys who were good enough with a heli arc rig that they could weld a hacksaw blade back together. And it looked just as good as any weld you would see on thicker pieces. Of course the weld broke when the hacksaw blade was flexed because the heat from welding destroyed the temper of the hacksaw blade. But it is possible to weld very thin pieces of metal together if you have the right guy behind the welding hood. Ben X2, you are absolutely correct. We have certified welders for different processes that can weld. Some are better at tig , mig and solder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNC Molds N Stuff Posted February 23, 2013 Report Share Posted February 23, 2013 The only way I know of to weld something as small as a piece of stainless wire is to use a TIG rig. I've seen guys who were good enough with a heli arc rig that they could weld a hacksaw blade back together. And it looked just as good as any weld you would see on thicker pieces. Of course the weld broke when the hacksaw blade was flexed because the heat from welding destroyed the temper of the hacksaw blade. But it is possible to weld very thin pieces of metal together if you have the right guy behind the welding hood. Ben I have seen guys weld soda cans together with a TIG machine. That being said, I wonder if a modified spot welder might work. A spot welder is usually used to weld two pieces of sheet together, but ... Maybe if each tong had a groove half the diameter of the wire to hold them in place and in direct contact. I suspect it would be touchy to get it just right even if it would work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted February 23, 2013 Report Share Posted February 23, 2013 I have seen guys weld soda cans together with a TIG machine. That being said, I wonder if a modified spot welder might work. A spot welder is usually used to weld two pieces of sheet together, but ... Maybe if each tong had a groove half the diameter of the wire to hold them in place and in direct contact. I suspect it would be touchy to get it just right even if it would work. Tig would be the way to go. Spotwelding can be done on stainless steel, however the two pieces of stainless steel have to be flat (like sheet steel). Bob I understand exactly what you're saying however when the spotwelder spotwelds, I don't think you will get good penetration, because of the two radii of the wire only touching. Not a lot of material to fuse together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basseducer Posted February 23, 2013 Report Share Posted February 23, 2013 I found some videos on youtube, but I don't know how to get them on here. If you go to youtube and search "jump ring welder" you can get alot of info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNC Molds N Stuff Posted February 23, 2013 Report Share Posted February 23, 2013 (edited) Tig would be the way to go. Spotwelding can be done on stainless steel, however the two pieces of stainless steel have to be flat (like sheet steel). Bob I understand exactly what you're saying however when the spotwelder spotwelds, I don't think you will get good penetration, because of the two radii of the wire only touching. Not a lot of material to fuse together. I did some reading on this since my earlier post. One item I read actually suggested spot welding with silicone bronze filler material. I was really surprised at that one. Another suggested a ring welder (which wouldn't work for this application) that pushes the two ends together. That one was suggested by somebody who builds orthodontic fixtures. TIG might be the best general purpose way to go, but depending on production there may be more efficient machines for this particular operation. Heck, if I already had a spot welder I might try some experiments even including polishing a flat one one side of the wire and/or squishing it in a die on my hydraulic press before spot welding. I don't have a spot welder or a TIG though. Just a dual gun MIG (Miller 212), a flux core China store rig, and an old Lincoln tombstone. (I actually still have uses for all three, although the uses for the cracker box are rare.) The one commercial bait maker I know who has to join stainless wire reliably uses a specially machined crimp sleeve. For him it was the fastest most efficient way to meet the key elements of his design criteria. Edited February 23, 2013 by Bob La Londe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted February 23, 2013 Report Share Posted February 23, 2013 Ben pointed out the problem with soldering or welding thin wire. The spot you heat becomes brittle. I soften spinnerbait wire with heat to open and close old loops, but I can only do it once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNC Molds N Stuff Posted February 23, 2013 Report Share Posted February 23, 2013 Most stainless alloys (not all) will anneal with heat, and harden from being worked. I think what you run into is dramatically different softness and hardness from the base material to the HAZ. This creates a non-uniform flex at that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted February 24, 2013 Report Share Posted February 24, 2013 Most stainless alloys (not all) will anneal with heat, and harden from being worked. I think what you run into is dramatically different softness and hardness from the base material to the HAZ. This creates a non-uniform flex at that point. What he said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfart9999 Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 I would just do the bending that Smalljaw recommended. Rodney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
