CNC Molds N Stuff Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 (edited) Does anybody here KNOW with certainty how Booyah is continuing to produce the Booyah Boogie http://booyahbaits.com/boogee.htm in the face of the Z-Man patent on the Chatterbait http://www.zmanfishing.com/cms/squad_detail.php?Z-Man-Announces-Issuance-of-Patent-for-Innovative-ChatterBait-reg-Line-18 ??? Did Booyah license it from Z-Man, where they "grandfathered", is it significantly different in design, or was the Z-man patent invalidated? In addition some of the parts vendors are selling the components to make similar baits. Sorry, I don't have access off hand to any new packaging for either of these baits to read patent numbers or licensing information, but if any of you guys have recently purchased either of these baits new I would appreciate knowing exactly what they say in that regard. And before anybody gets their undies in a twist, "No I am not planning to make a knock off." I have a derivative idea. Edited February 26, 2013 by Bob La Londe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljaw Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 When the chatterbait craze began Barlows tackle was selling the blades that were identical to the original made by Rad Lures but shortly after Zman aquired the company the patented to blade and I remember the letter I got saying I could not make any baits to sell using that blade, the reason I got a letter was I bought 500 blades. You see knock offs where there isn't a patent or where companies can tweak the design such as the boogie bait which is a completely different bait. The original chatterbait is a jig with a blade, the boogie bait is more of a spinnerbait and it does make a difference in the action. I make one with a jig and one with a spinnerbait head, the reason for the action is the wire the blade is attached to, the jig version the blade is attached to heavy wire that is almost as heavy as the hook eye while the spinnerbait model uses a .035 to .040 wire. The wire, along with the position of the blade make the bait do different things. I know it doesn't make much sense but as long as someone has a different blade design then they are free to make a bladed jig and if you look at any of the suppliers, they all sell blades called "jig dancer blades" with or without bubble holes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNC Molds N Stuff Posted February 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 (edited) Thanks. That would leave my idea open to do then. Now to spend some time in front of the computer doing design work. Please if anybody else has any feedback I would appreciate it. Edited February 26, 2013 by Bob La Londe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Deal Custom Tackle Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 Smalljaw, the first patent zman got was dealing with the blade. That was circumvented by changing the blade and was how all the knockoffs were able to stay. The second patent was a "design" patent and was what allowed them to sue Phoenix and win. That's when all the others disappeared. I'm assuming strike king is getting around it due to the different attachment method or the fact that they are just a powerhouse and zman doesn't want to waste money in litigation for years. I used to make them using all parts from Barlow's and zman made sure I knew of the patents, which is their first step in building a case against you. That's why I stopped making them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 I never made these, however I do know a guy that is currently making quite a few of these and selling them. He makes them on a spinnerbait head like smalljaw mentioned, and they can't touch his bait because the attachment is different. He buys his blades from Barlow's I believe, the one that smalljaw mentioned with and without the bubbler holes. It's all about design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumpy Posted February 28, 2013 Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 cadman and smalljaw - A question for you if you don't mind. Based off the Patents of U.S. Patent No. 7,627,978 (978 patent), and U.S. Patent No. 7,726,062, issued June 1, 2010 (062 patent) from zman's does that mean if you make a "Vibrating Jig" with the Barlows Blades and an Arky Style Mold and sell it, you're illegal in doing so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonfishn Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 I'm not 100% sure but one of the manufacturer's reps I know mentioned one time tht Booyah was paying a license fee to ZeeMan? I also remember something to the effect that Booyah had since changed some of the design aspects so it is slightly different than the "original" in that it's hook is attached using a welded cable (movable) thus invalidating part of the Design Patent (for overall fishing contrivance). Additionally, Booyah's further refined their blade configuration to offset by a few degrees the effective arc of the blade itself in realtionship to remainder of the bait. I know of several manufacturer's, small time, who are selling blades which have both modified blade configuration as well as snap slots. These patent infringement suits are like everything else, whoever has the deep pockets is going to win in the first rounds (Federal district court level), most patent infringement issues are modified upon appeal and a lot are outright dismissed). Remember the brohaha over the Alabama Rig and the threatened patent suits? As it turned out, the only violation they had a causitive action on was the actual term' "Alabama Rig" as the so-called rig was nothing more than a spider/umbrella rig which has been sold for many, many years. I could cite more examples of fire and smoke, not the least of which was Netbait's shotgun approach to suing everyone under the sun re their craw desgin, that is until they got their tail clipped by the big boys, Bass Pro Shops, etc., when they showed that "they" were selling similarily designed claws years before. it's all about the money and what "they" can get outta the smaller compnaies who can't afford to hire the legal guns. That's not to say though that their are some REAL innovators out there it's just that there's been so many different desgins through the years that it's getting virtually impossible to design something which hasn't been "sold" before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 cadman and smalljaw - A question for you if you don't mind. Based off the Patents of U.S. Patent No. 7,627,978 (978 patent), and U.S. Patent No. 7,726,062, issued June 1, 2010 (062 patent) from zman's does that mean if you make a "Vibrating Jig" with the Barlows Blades and an Arky Style Mold and sell it, you're illegal in doing so? Mumpy, First of all I'm not a lawyer so I can't give you legal advice. Second of all I don't know all the laws regarding patent infringement and copyrights regarding design and such. If I remember correctly, the Chatterbait was a coffin shaped blade with an Arky head attached to it by the hook eye. With that said, if you copy that you are going to have problems, if you use the Barlow's bubbler blades, yes it is a different design. Question is, is it different enough? You will have to look into this to get your answer.Let's face it unless you are really wealthy, and have enough money to fight it in court, do you want to take that chance? That is your call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 Barlow's stuff works. I just wish they used a better hook. Salted trailers eat those hook alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...