Jdeee Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 Does anyone have any tricks for cutting tapers on a lure after the original shape has been cut? Let me explain You cut out a shape on a bandsaw lets say a standard minnow lying on its side , after you turn it and sit it on its belly. Now is there a way to cut out the shape from this angle rounding the head and cutting a taper towards the tail. I made a stand up jig for my tablesaw but I don't find it accurate enough Anyone have any tricks for doing this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j27 Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 I use a belt sander for this step. Decide the thickness you want the head and tail and use a compass to mark both sides at the very ends of each side. This will give you a stopping point. Also mark perpendicular to the center line where the belly ( thickest section ) will be. Do this on both sides so when flipping the bait while sanding you can stay true on both sides and ends. Good luck, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdeee Posted February 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 Thanks John I have tried using my belt sander but if I am doing a lot of lures in one shot it gets old fast and the accuracy for me gets compromised, no patience, and then I start to wear down my finger tips. I should have mentioned that I am looking for more of a solution for small production runs. The wood I use is either poplar or red cedar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j27 Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 Ha ha, I understand. Yea, this process works best with balsa. Sorry I can't be more help to ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNC Molds N Stuff Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 I think a small CNC router would be an excellent way to turn a block of wood into a sheet of blanks ready for sanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 If you're making wood or PVC cranks, you can't avoid hand work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stretcher66 Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 If you're making wood or PVC cranks, you can't avoid hand work. x2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdeee Posted February 18, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) I don't mind the hand work, I am trying to cut down on the fine dust from sanding off larger areas of wood on larger baits and speed up this part of the process with a some sort of consistent accuracy. Since the baits are odd shapes at this point it is very hard to get equal sides without sanding. I am just wondering if anyone has created a solution to this with either a jig or template for a router or a saw or another solution that is out of the box? Bob I would love to get a 5 axis CNC to shape them up to final sanding with eye and weight holes programmed right in ! One can only dream Maybe one of those funky duplicators sealed in a box with dust extraction is the only solution and next step Edited February 18, 2014 by Jdeee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNC Molds N Stuff Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) You do not need a 5 axis machine for roughing sheets of blanks and cutting both sides. You just make a jig with pins for flipping your sheet of stock and maintaining relative position. NOT one at a time, but its impossible because somebody said so. LOL. You can't eliminate all hand work easily and cost effectively, but you can sure cut it down a lot. Use a cnc router with a vacuum shoe, and the airborne dust is drastically reduced. The closest you can cut it with rough heavy cutting the larger the chips. Those you can drop out with a simple Thein separator leaving only the last layers of finish dust to be knocked down with a spray mist over your dust exhaust. Do you guys really think the big boys are hand carving hardwood baits? Edited February 18, 2014 by Bob La Londe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNC Molds N Stuff Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 P.S. If dust is your biggest concern look at this thread also: http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?/topic/26240-dust-buster/#entry214671 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 A dust collection system is the key to cutting down on sanding dust. That and a dust mask. Because I can shape a lure so fast with my oscillating belt sander I had to find a way to cut down on the dust, or I would have been buried in it pretty quickly. There are portable dust removal systems out there that work, so check the woodworking sites, like Rockler's. For hobbiests like me they are a great way to go. I used to build a lot of cabinets and furniture in my garage, so I decided to make my own dust collection system. I had a homemade portable system that I used for a while, but then I had some down time and decided to do something more permanent and convenient. I used two 1000cfm wall mount kitchen ventilators I got off a job, and mounted them side by side on my garage wall outside, next to the rear corner. Because they are designed for kitchen hood exhaust they are explosion proof. That is important with dust collection. Inside, I built a raised shelf to hold a 55 gallon plastic trash barrel just below the level of the fans, and rigged a homemade 6" cyclone-imitating duct separator for the dust coming in, so the incoming air and dust circulates in the chamber above the barrel and the heavier stuff falls into the barrel. There is a washable HVAC green filter in front of the two fans, which are connected by a big plywood rectangle that holds the filter. I get almost no dust on the exterior wall below the fans, and the green filter is easy to remove and clean. The barrel slides out from under the collection chamber to empty. I put a clear plexi. window on the front of the collection chamber that's removable, so I can see when it's time to clean the green filter, and I can access it without removing the barrel. I ran 6" main trunk ducting across the ceiling of my garage from above my machine locations to the side of the collection chamber, and 4" branches down to my saws and my sander. I used manual gates at each machine so I can open only the one I'm using, to keep the head pressure up. It keeps the dust way down, but I still have to clean up with a shop vac. around the sander every so often. I spent a long time thinking about this system before I even started, and wouldn't have done it at all if I hadn't gotten the two Thermador side draft units for free. When I get a chance I'll take some pictures and post them in one of the galleries here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrybait Posted February 18, 2014 Report Share Posted February 18, 2014 Jdeee. You can cut the taper after you cut the profile if you start with a piece of stock about two inches longer than you need for the finished lure. Cut your lip slot first if there is one and then cut the profile out without completing the profile on the very ends. That way the original rectangular ends will hold the blank true as you bandsaw the "top view". You will start out with two stencils, side and top. I don't do it that way because I have been able to get very acceptable results using reference lines. With wood or pvc, after I cut the profile and the blank is still flat on both sides, I take a pencil or sharpie felt tip marker to add reference lines. On a good table saw type surface, I use tapered door shims to lay the marker on and hold it firmly so that the tip is very close to the center of the blank. Hold the marker firmly while I slide the blank around on the table in contact with the marker to have a nice line all the way around. Maintain the firm hold on the marker and turn the blank over to make the same mark all the way around. Now if you were perfectly centered you still only have one line all the way around but I generally wind up with two lines close together which is just as good. Now remove a shim and lower the marker and make another line about 1/4 inch off center on both sides. Just takes a minute. I still trace the top view at this point and rough it out on the band saw. Then I'm off to my 1" belt sander. Nothing fancy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdeee Posted February 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Thanks guys Mark I really wish I had the space to set up a proper dust system that would empty outdoors but my neighbours would shoot me and the city would bury what was left! Inside my small 1 car garage I do much of my cutting sanding work and I use another small room for painting/ epoxy stuff. Bob I tried to send you a PM, think your mailbox is full? I do own a 5' x 9' CNC from a previous business but again my present house is not the place to set it up. Barry you have given me a good idea by leaving extra wood to keep the side flush against the bandsaw table. Instead of leaving extra wood I think I will just try using a squeeze clamp to hold the lure upright so I can cut the front sides then reverse it and cut the tail sides off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 Jdeee, The secret is good filter material, so the air you're blowing out is clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdeee Posted February 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 The clamp trick works great 10 lures in 5 minutes. Still needs a bit of sanding but just got rid of 95% of the material that would have turned into dust. Happy camper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Glenn Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) Back to the original question of cutting the 3rd and 4th sides of a lure. The answer is in your trash can. Lets say you band saw the top and bottom profiles first and second. Make sure there is enough scrap wood on each side to hole top and bottom scrap pieces so that they can be taped back to the lure blank. When you tape them back on the top and bottom then you have a flat side to cut the right and left profile. Then the hand work starts. This is the same way some of the custom table legs are made. Musky Glenn Edited February 19, 2014 by Musky Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt M Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 I use the same technique as Musky Glen and it works well for me. I recommend laying out both top and side profiles before you make any cuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jdeee Posted February 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Here is what I came up with, thanks Barry for helping get the old brain going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted February 20, 2014 Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 Thanks guys Mark I really wish I had the space to set up a proper dust system that would empty outdoors but my neighbours would shoot me and the city would bury what was left! Inside my small 1 car garage I do much of my cutting sanding work and I use another small room for painting/ epoxy stuff. Bob I tried to send you a PM, think your mailbox is full? I do own a 5' x 9' CNC from a previous business but again my present house is not the place to set it up. Barry you have given me a good idea by leaving extra wood to keep the side flush against the bandsaw table. Instead of leaving extra wood I think I will just try using a squeeze clamp to hold the lure upright so I can cut the front sides then reverse it and cut the tail sides off. You do not have to expel dust onto your neighbors garden, nor do you have to use filters. Here is a link to a dust separator, home built, and here is a link to a forum that answers all the questions and even posts improvements. I never got around to building one, but Pete (Hazmail) put me onto this design a couple of years ago. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Dave, That's what I did, using the 6" ducting inside my collection chamber, so the heavier stuff falls into the barrel below, and the lighter stuff is trapped by the washable HVAC filter material. It works great. I wish I had seen that site before I went to the trouble to do it myself, but that was twenty years ago. Time flies when you're having fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 Dave, That's what I did, using the 6" ducting inside my collection chamber, so the heavier stuff falls into the barrel below, and the lighter stuff is trapped by the washable HVAC filter material. It works great. I wish I had seen that site before I went to the trouble to do it myself, but that was twenty years ago. Time flies when you're having fun. Oh good job Mark! Maybe time to have a look again. From what I understand, the unit will take out nearly all the fine stuff too. Your system is already built, so it would just be a replacement lid. Just something to think about. I realize that you are already set-up with filters. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted February 21, 2014 Report Share Posted February 21, 2014 I actually had a similar version, with a side draft motor mounted to a plywood top of a trash can, and a spiral made of sheet metal duct inside the barrel on the intake side, that I used for a couple of years. It worked, but I had to keep it outside and run a long hose to whatever machine I was using. I don't have room in my garage shop for a 55 gallon trash can and me, too. One of the advantages of my system is that whatever noise the two fans make, which is minimal, is on the outside, so I can hear myself think while it's on. I own half a dozen shop vacs, and they are all noisey. That was part of the reason I wound up making this system. We installed a couple of in-house vacuum systems in houses we were building, and I was impressed with how quiet the inside part was, since the motor and collector was mounted outside of the house. But, having said all that, if that lid would have been available back then I would have jumped on it like a duck on a junebug, and never looked back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNC Molds N Stuff Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 You do not have to expel dust onto your neighbors garden, nor do you have to use filters. Here is a link to a dust separator, home built, and here is a link to a forum that answers all the questions and even posts improvements. I never got around to building one, but Pete (Hazmail) put me onto this design a couple of years ago. Dave I've read quite a bit about Thein separators, and they just don't take down all the really fine stuff. The stuff that floats in the air for hours. A shop vac with a paper filter will stop most of that, but if you are doing a lot of work that filter can plug up faster than you think. There are two fairly common cheap methods to deal with that. Both basically eliminate the filter in the vacuum. One exhausts the vac out through a very fine water mist which knocks down all the fine powder. This is almost 100%, but uses water of course. Another is to exhaust the vac thru a large flat filter in an external box that is easily slid out and replaced even with the machine running in some cases. While some dust can escape through the service slot most is impacted into the filter. From what I have read, nothing really takes down "all" the dust without something to bind it into a heavier particle like the water mist method or forcing the air through a filter. Note "all" is in quotes? That's because nothing eliminates 100% of all the finest particles. The water method is popular with some crowds who think the wood pulp helps their gardens, but I am not so sure about the glue binders in plywood and MDF or the value of PVC saw dust. LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 (edited) I cut tapers by accurately marking them top and bottom on the front and back of the lure, then standing outside my garage with a circular sander/polisher mounted with 200 grit paper. I want to see the top and bottom marks at the same time while I sand and free-handing it allows me to do that. Pretty simple, no worries about excessive sawdust. I use the same method when I have blanks that need to be narrowed before beginning work on them. If I had 25 blanks to sand, my 8 lb sander/polisher would get too heavy to hold but I never build more than 6 at a time, so it's not a problem. Edited March 3, 2014 by BobP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazmail Posted March 5, 2014 Report Share Posted March 5, 2014 Dave --I have found this one much better, no sign of ANY dust--you can also use it to cool the shed in summer. http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/index.php?/topic/26240-dust-buster/ Sorry for getting off topic but thought it was worth adding for 'personal safety' reasons. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
