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HAWGFAN

Line Tie Placement

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I have been making balsa crankbaits for a while and have had some pretty good results.  So far, everything I've done has had the line tie in the nose of the bait.  My next challenge is going to be trying to put the line tie in the bill.  I'm hoping some of you can help me shorten the learning curve.  I'll assume that the more bill length I have in front of the tie point, the more wobble I'll have.  Eventually I suppose you would overpower the bait, and make it unstable.  Am I generally correct in this thinking?  Next, I have no idea what effect the distance between the body of the bait and the line tie will have.  Does it counteract the action gained from the distance between the line tie and the end?  If so, I'd guess it would then be a balancing act between the diving depth and action you're trying to achieve.  I also understand that the bill angle has a part to play in this equation, so I'm just asking for general "rules of thumb" type comments.

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So many things come into play, like the size and shape of the bill, the angle of the bill in relation to the centerline of the lure, and where you put your ballast, that it's hard to give a "rule".

Generally speaking, when your line tie is in the bill, the farther from the tip of the bill, the deeper the bait dives, but, past half way to the lure, the more unstable it becomes.

I have gotten away with having the line tie just past mid point, so it's 60% from the tip of the bill and 40% from the nose of the bait, but I have to sand and fine tune the bill's end to achieve stability...stop the bait from rolling.

50/50 or a little less is a much safer ratio, so the line tie is midpoint from the end of the bill to the bait.  You still get good wiggle, side to side Xing, and almost maximum depth.

If I want to make a lure that I know won't blow out, I keep the line tie 40% back from the tip of the bill.

Another thing that affects lure action is how "tall" your line tie is above the bill's surface.  If you look at a lot of commercial deep diving baits the line tie is somewhat recessed into a pocket in the bill's face.

I've made divers with taller line ties, and they are very stable on a fast retrieve.  I'm sure someone here onTU can explain why.  I just screwed up a couple of my line ties and found that out by accident.  One of those OOPS moments.

Wider bills have more wiggle, too, because they catch more water, like putting your hand out of the car window and holding it flat to the wind.

So many variables, so little time!  Hahaha

Pick a commercial lure that you want to simulate, check how it's built, and start there.  The big manufs. spend a lot doing testing of their baits before they market them, and you can learn a lot just by imitation, initially.

Edited by mark poulson
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I have been making balsa crankbaits for a while and have had some pretty good results.  So far, everything I've done has had the line tie in the nose of the bait.  My next challenge is going to be trying to put the line tie in the bill.  I'm hoping some of you can help me shorten the learning curve.  I'll assume that the more bill length I have in front of the tie point, the more wobble I'll have.  Eventually I suppose you would overpower the bait, and make it unstable.  Am I generally correct in this thinking?  Next, I have no idea what effect the distance between the body of the bait and the line tie will have.  Does it counteract the action gained from the distance between the line tie and the end?  If so, I'd guess it would then be a balancing act between the diving depth and action you're trying to achieve.  I also understand that the bill angle has a part to play in this equation, so I'm just asking for general "rules of thumb" type comments.

If you're still just talking about shallow crankbaits, you're right on about the length of the bill.  If you look at something like a Zoom WEC E1, the line tie is in the lip but still very close to the bait body, maybe 1/8" away.  But the lip itself is a little longer than a typical square bill.  In general, the closer the line tie is to the lip surface, the wider wobble a bait will display.  Most square bills are built that way whether they have the line tie in the lip or in the nose, cited right down on the lip.  Is there a functional difference?  That's not so easy to say.  Crankbait hydrodynamics are very complicated and small differences can cause big changes in performance.  As a practical build consideration, putting the line tie in the lip of a balsa bait does tend to make the bait more durable since the user is not jacking the tie around in the bait's finish coat while he tunes it, possibly breaking the bait's waterproof membrane.

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A while back, Vodkaman Dave posted that he gets cranks to hunt by making them with longer bills, and then shaving down the bill until the bait isn't blowing out, but jumps to the side every so often.  

So the length of the bill in front of the line tie, and how high up it is on the nose of a shallow runner, is critical, but what's right for any one crank usually has to be found by trial and error.

That's why I typically copy a lure I like pretty closely, using how it sits in the water, where the hooks are mounted, and how the line tie lays out as a guide.  

I'm not trying to duplicate the crank, but just to use it as a starting point.

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There's always an exact lip shape, width, length, and line tie position that will provide the best action for a crankbait.  Finding it is the hard part.  I usually start with a commercial crankbait that I admire, copy it as exactly as I can, then experiment with later versions to get what I consider to be an improved action.  But I haven't had much luck in using an over-sized lip and shaving the length to improve the action.  Maybe I just don't have the patience?  When I get out on the water, I want to fishing and not burning long hours tweaking crankbaits.

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@ HAWGFAN

 

Take some time to study these written information , .......had a brief once over , ....had the impression , that some of the info in different articles is a bit controversial and contradicting , though :

 

http://www.angelfire.com/tn/treetotreasure/lips.html

 

http://www.tacklecrafting.com/hb_crankbait_types.html

 

http://www.lovetheoutdoors.com/freshwater-fishing/Spoons/Crank-Baits.html

 

http://www.conservationcafe.com/Fishing/article_detail.asp?iArticleID=5720

 

http://assets.espn.go.com/winnercomm/outdoors/bassmaster/pdf/11_07_webtip.pdf

 

I could also recommend this book , contains a chapter about diving bills and line tie placement(no luremaking , though) , ....also otherwise a very good and easy to comprehend book on all aspects of crankbait fishing , even for me that English is not my first language :

 

http://www.amazon.com/Joe-Buchers-Crankbait-Secrets-Crankbaits/dp/0873417291

 

Otherwise I'm with the other guys in here , take yourself a commercial bait as a sample and start experimenting making knock-offs from it , ........don't forget to keep exact records to be able to reproduce as accurate as possible .

 

During my luremaking career I would sometimes carve two or three blanks after same sketches , so quite uniform , ....but assemble different lips to them , .....quite interesting to see the sometimes vast differences in swimming actions , also teaches a lot .

 

Crankbait action(including diving depth) does not only depend on lip angle , lip size and shape and line tie placement ,  but also on body shape , sideward and cross section profile , buoyancy , ballast placement and even a few more variables , I guess .

 

Writing about these lure dynamics would fill entire book chapters , .......I guess , this is why there is no complete sum up around in the web , at least none that I had come across yet .

 

BTW  , ...another good book about making wooden baits containing elaborate explanations on crankbait dynamics  , ...but sadly was only issued in German and Swedish versions , no English issue ever printed ,  ......out of print by now :

 

http://www.amazon.de/Wobbler-Hans-Nordin/dp/3275013092

 

Greetz , diemai :yay:

Edited by diemai
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citrus M3

 
After processing the advice I received, I set out to make my first prototype with the line tie in the bill.  I wasn't wanting to make a true "deep" diver, but add a couple feet to my shallow model.  I looked at many pictures of others baits, and kind of read between the lines of what was given to me here.  What I did know, was that this body does well with 3/4" of bill exposed, set on a 45 degree angle.  I didn't want to get too aggressive on my first attempt, so I tried to build some forgiveness into this bait.  I used a bill of similar shape and width, and put the line tie 3/4" from the end.  I also brought the angle up to only 10 degrees.  I left 3/8" space between the line tie and the bait body.  It was actually a very successful attempt.  I seemed to get at least 2 extra feet of depth, in limited testing.  As I expected, the action is also tighter than my shallow model, which I hoped for in a deeper diver.  If I use more length beyond the line tie in the future, I believe the 50/50 rule will start to apply.  That may be my next endeavor. Thanks again for all the comments.  The advice of more experienced builders has definitely helped me to avoid building a lot of hand carved balsa key chains.

 

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Well done on an intelligent build. As you realize, the success of these baits is all about the tow eye position, but that is one feature that cannot be adjusted. But you can make the lip extra long and trim it back to get the ideal depth that you are looking for. Then for future builds, you can get it right first time, providing you kept good notes of course :)

 

Dave

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