jonister Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 Hi all, I'm new to this site and just wondering if anyone has used Minwax wood hardener as a sealer and, if it works. I've been making some baits and have been wondering if the minwax has been working of not. I just don't want to paint a nice lure and have it split or crack from water damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 It contains solvents and a resin and I'm sure it hardens wood. To what extent it also waterproofs the wood is a different question, which can only be determined by experience. I call the coating over raw wood "undercoating" and it has 2 functions. First, it seals the wood grain so it will not rise when you paint the lure with water based acrylic paint. Second, it is a durable waterproof layer which, along with the topcoat, protects the lure from water penetration. I use epoxy, propionate, or UV cured polyester resin (Solarez) as undercoatings. Other guys call it "sealer" or "primer" and it confuses the issue to me. I think a sealer's function is only preventing grain from rising, and I think of primer as a paint adhesion coating. Another issue to consider is whether the Minwax will be compatible with the paint and topcoat you use over it. Most undercoat products are OK with acrylic paint, but paint containing solvent might not be. If it isn't, you may see fisheyes in the paint. Topcoats containing solvent are often very selective about compatibility with particular undercoatings. All of us use a "devil's brew" of undercoatings, paint, and topcoats. None of them were specifically designed to work together so we can only try different sets of coatings and see if they work or fail. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat28 Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 If you wish to dip several, several times, it may work. By dipping just twice, I destroyed a batch of my lures. They all cracked as they were not sealed. The stuff also has a nasty reputation health wise. Use in a very well ventilated area. I now prefer to seal my lures by dipping in water based, marine grade urethane. Deft makes a super product that almost does not smell and is not a mess to manipulate. I then prime, paint and seal one more time with epoxy. Have not had a single failure, and I work with woods that are very prone to cracking when in contact with water. Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenlures Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 I would have to say that on a question like this that you say what size lure, and what type of wood you are using. Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAWGFAN Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 I've been interested in trying this product myself on my balsa baits. It sounds like a good first step in the seal/undercoat process. After doing a search in this forum you'll find a major concern. It appears some have had issues getting all the solvent out of the wood. This causes bubbling when heat setting your paint. This can be avoided with more curing time I assume, if you're willing to wait, as some do. For me, I've decided to stick with propionate and/or epoxy for sealing. A thin mix of prop penetrates the wood and drys quickly. A thicker solution builds faster. Epoxy does a better job of leveling, and will hide imperfections in the wood easier. It's not a bad idea to use both. Some start with thin super glue for this purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedyarb Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 Thin super glue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 I tried it as a sealer, and it did bubble when I heat set my paints. I tried hitting it with a hair dryer first, to get the solvents out, but never got it to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobP Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 If a paint bubbles when heat drying, the undercoat isn't waterproof and there are better options. The finish on a crankbait has double functionality. It prevents water intrusion into the wood but you also want it strong enough to contain internal pressure generated when the crankbait goes through heating and cooling cycles. Heating is more dangerous because it tends to soften the finish at the same time air pressure inside the lure is rising - lifting the finish off the wood. Heat can also destroy plastic baits. There are numerous instances where crankbaits have ballooned and split open during storage in a hot rod locker or some similar environment. The finish on a crankbait is like an egg shell. It resists external pressure very well but ruptures much easier from internal pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted March 7, 2014 Report Share Posted March 7, 2014 Bob, You're so right about plastic baits. I have several of the original Red Eye Shad rattle baits that got pregnant in a storage locker, right next to original Rattle Traps that weren't bothered at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonister Posted March 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 how would you thin super glue? that sounds like it would work. the minwax I used seemed to seal the lure but im not sure so I just want to be on the safe side and seal with what works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayburnGuy Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 (edited) how would you thin super glue? that sounds like it would work. the minwax I used seemed to seal the lure but im not sure so I just want to be on the safe side and seal with what works. You can buy super glue in different thicknesses. From almost as thin as water all the way up to a gel. The thin is what most of us use to seal baits with as it soaks into the wood to some degree and gives the wood a tough outer shell as well as making it waterproof. This is especially true of softer woods like balsa. Some of us follow this up with a coat of epoxy that adds another layer of protection to the bait. Ben Edited March 8, 2014 by RayburnGuy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
