grundlman Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 Anyone know if there is a resource out there for 3d models of mustad hooks. I am fairly proficient with rhino and have some designs created but without an accurate hook model it will do me no good. I have reached out to mustad and they have told me they do not have such a thing. I talked to one company about scanning them in but that was waaaay out of my budget. I am thinking of just winging it on my own but want to see if anyone else has went down this road before I do. Thanks Grundlman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaery Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 I might be able to help. What hook number? Mine don't have points on them. If your proficient in Rhino, you could draw them, but I would be glad to help you if I can. I drew mine in MOI, I think this program was created by the guy that wrote the program for Rhino. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadman Posted August 6, 2014 Report Share Posted August 6, 2014 I don't know of any sites that have 3d solid model files available to us. I make my own. The only thing my hooks don't have is the barb under the hook point. Mine are true parametric solid models. I have a few done, I would be willing to help as well. See attached file below, is this what you are looking for? Also this solid model can be put on a drawing and I can extrapolate all the dimensions from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 I have done a couple of hooks that I use (size 4 and 6 trebles). Like you, I was hoping to model them all. If you do find a dimensional source, let me know. I am also willing to share. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grundlman Posted August 7, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 Those are exactly what I am looking for. I am just interested in having the proper diameter and bends in order to make a new mold. I am looking to use the mustad 32768 or 91768 in 3/0 and 4/0 for my new jig heads. I am in no way proficient in rhino, but I can do decent and we have some interns that are good at it. If no one has these I will share if interested once I make them. Thanks for all of the help and support. Grundlman aka Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaery Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 So you want the hook to make the slot in the mold, boolean subtract? I have some scans of those hooks and would have to draw them. On hook diameter do you have a way to machine the hook slot bigger so the hook will fit? I usually draw the hook .010" bigger diameter so the hook fits better. What file format? I would guess a stp file would be best. Unless someone else has one of these already, I could draw one and send it to you to see if it works. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNC Molds N Stuff Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 If its a hook I have on hand I just measure it and plan my cuts using simple 2D CAD/CAM. If its not a hook I have on hand I ask the client to send me a half dozen of the hook they want to use, and I ... I just measure it and plan my cuts using simple 2D CAD/CAM. If I am working with a hook that has no straight lines (shank eye stem etc) to reference from I lay it on a piece of graph paper and take a picture from exactly overhead. Then I import the image into my CAD software and scale it until it matches the layout grid of the CAD program. From there its just a matter of drawing it. Believe me it takes longer to describe than to just do it. Also, remember that you do not have to accurately place the entire hook in most cases. Just where it exits and enters the mold cavity for a short distance. Beyond that it can lay in a wide open oversize pocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaery Posted August 7, 2014 Report Share Posted August 7, 2014 If its a hook I have on hand I just measure it and plan my cuts using simple 2D CAD/CAM. If its not a hook I have on hand I ask the client to send me a half dozen of the hook they want to use, and I ... I just measure it and plan my cuts using simple 2D CAD/CAM. If I am working with a hook that has no straight lines (shank eye stem etc) to reference from I lay it on a piece of graph paper and take a picture from exactly overhead. Then I import the image into my CAD software and scale it until it matches the layout grid of the CAD program. From there its just a matter of drawing it. Believe me it takes longer to describe than to just do it. Also, remember that you do not have to accurately place the entire hook in most cases. Just where it exits and enters the mold cavity for a short distance. Beyond that it can lay in a wide open oversize pocket. I'm either too lazy or not smart enough to do it that way All I want to do is push a button. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNC Molds N Stuff Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 (edited) I usually don't have much problem drawing two straight lines to profile a hook slot. Now if I had 3D files of all the hooks available already it might be different. Heck I had a hard time just getting samples of hooks from some of the MFGs. Daiichi (TTI Blakemore) sent me one of each of every hook they have each in a seperate bag labeled with the part number. Then I have worked with TJ and Ron over there for a lot of years. They sponsored my fishing club, and they always sent me anything I asked for. Mustad said they would send me samples one at a time as requested, but they wouldn't send me one of each so I could pick the best hook for an application. The Gamakatsu rep told me to go F@#K myself. Owner has sent me samples about the same as Mustad, and I've been able to work with Eagle Claw in the past. None of them said they had CAD models of their hooks avaialable, and I asked. Maybe I just don't know the secret handshake. I do have to say I think .010 seems like a lot of clearance. I usually go for a little less and try to produce molds that fit a hook with little or no flash even with a hot mold and hot lead. I'm not always successful, but I would think .010 would flash more often. (I also cut vents on key points on lead molds so theyt fill better.) Edited August 8, 2014 by Bob La Londe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 (edited) I am prepared to take on the task of modelling ALL the hooks and making available CAD files. The formats that I have available are: CATPART, STL, IGS, MODEL, STP, 3DMAP, 3DXML, CGR, HGC, VPS WRL. All I am asking for this service, is that those of you with Vernier calipers or other accurate measuring tools, take seven measurements and post them in this thread along with the part name and number. The measurements I require are shown in the attached image. A photo would be a bonus, but not necessary for the job. Measurements can be metric or imperial inches. Dave Edited August 9, 2014 by Vodkaman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 I am prepared to take on the task of modelling ALL the hooks and making available CAD files. The formats that I have available are: CATPART, STL, IGS, MODEL, STP, 3DMAP, 3DXML, CGR, HGC, VPS WRL. All I am asking for this service, is that those of you with Vernier calipers or other accurate measuring tools, take seven measurements and post them in this thread along with the part name and number. The measurements I require are shown in the attached image. A photo would be a bonus, but not necessary for the job. Measurements can be metric or imperial inches. Dave You are very generous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaery Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 ok here is a drawing of 32786, 8/0 down to 4/0. Dimensions are in inches. I traced around the outside of the hooks. the grid underneath is is 0.100" x 0.100" This was drawn in code or a test, so you will have to study to figure out what I've done. Let me know if you need clarification. the other is a pic on the same grid paper. Both of these pics are made to actual size and should print actual size, it does on mine. My photo editing software will size it to actual. I have a good 3d file on the 8/0 file. I also have 7, 6, 5, 4/0's but I would have to double check those. I can do these pretty easy and will help. I have a lot of different sizes of hooks in Mustad, and Eagle Claw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaery Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 Here is the 91768 3/0 and 4/0 I did put a mic to these. Just remember, I have been known to make mistakes 91768-30-40.pdf 91768-30-40.pdf 91768-30-40.pdf 91768-30-40.pdf 91768-30-40.pdf 91768-30-40.pdf 91768-30-40.pdf 91768-30-40.pdf 91768-30-40.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 David - great stuff that last one. Exactly what I need Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaery Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 I glad you like it. I just learned how to do that. with a scan/pic because I didn't know where the scale button was at The pics of the 32786 were made 4 years ago with a pencil, maybe you already noticed that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 I made a start. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted August 10, 2014 Report Share Posted August 10, 2014 The shape of the bends is more complex than I anticipated, appearing to be eliptical rather than radii. As the point of CAD models is to be able to use the data for possibly machining, it is critical that we model these bends and the barb as close as possible, to avoid expensive mistakes. I have therefore added more dimensions for the hook bend, required to help me model with more accuracy. Once the numbers are in, I can return PDF files for overlay. I have constructed the dimensions so that they are convenient to measure, to the outside of the hook. Attached is a table of dimensions to make the job of data collection easier for us both. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted August 10, 2014 Report Share Posted August 10, 2014 I had to re-send, the file upload failed in the post above. Dave hook data collection.pdf hook data collection.pdf hook data collection.pdf hook data collection.pdf hook data collection.pdf hook data collection.pdf hook data collection.pdf hook data collection.pdf hook data collection.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNC Molds N Stuff Posted August 10, 2014 Report Share Posted August 10, 2014 For anybody making molds around these models.... 1. Not every hook in a box is exactly identical. That's why when somebody asks me to make a mold to accomodate a particular hook I ask for half a dozen samples of the hook they want to use. 2. While I think .010" is too much clearance for a hook some clearance is necessary. .003 to .005 seems to work for me depending on the hook design. It doesn't tend to flash significantly, and allows for a little variation of the hook. Don't cut a slot that is an exact relief of the hook. You will eventually wind up with a wider slot anyway from forcing the hooks into it. LOL. Also, its much easier to cut a larger clearance area where the hook does not directly interface with the bait. Only cut a slot for the hook where it exits the cavity for a short distance, then cut a much larger pocket for the eye and barb that is the depth of the hook radius on each plate. 3. The curve of the hook is quite complex probably being bent on something the equiivelant of a spring making machine, and springing back slightly. Any variations in the alloy or even in the pretreating processes for the wire can affect that. They can get very close, but not perfecty identical on every hook. Also, any processes used after bending like work hardening in a press or heat treating in a furnace can cause minor fluctuations. 4. Take all of this with a large dollop of salt. I've ony been half serious about learning metal working for about six (6) years, and all of my knowledge is self taught from books, the internet, or mistakes in hands on experiments. Vodkaman, I believe you have undertaken a monumental task, but from what I have seen in your past experiments you are probably the best man to do it. If I ever find a fast reliable (and affordable) laser scanning service, or find an affordable laser scanner for my own shop, I'll probably pitch in. I do not trust myself to provide adequate measurements for the enitre hook. I only try to find center lines for the very short parts of a hook that exits the cavity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted August 10, 2014 Report Share Posted August 10, 2014 Excellent points Bob, I appreciate you taking the time. As you already know, I use parametrics. So once the basic design is done, it is just a matter of entering the numbers. In fact, although the two hooks above, 32786 and 91768, look quite different, I was able to use the same parametric model to get a result. Now that the main design work is done, it is about five minutes per hook to produce a 3D model, a drawing, PDF and a JPEG. I hope a few more members get on board with this idea, but I suspect it will wither away, like the lip template service that I offered a few years back. DAve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaery Posted August 10, 2014 Report Share Posted August 10, 2014 Did you have enough info on the 32786 4/0 through 8/0? I will do the 32786 3/0 next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 I would like you to mic the point to barb tip length and have a stab at the max rad dimensions, as shown on my PDF. One or two dimensions were missing, but enough there for me to have a stab at. I got your email. Sending a reply now. DAve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grundlman Posted August 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 This is awesome gents! Thank you all for your help. I started working but did not get very far on the 32786 hook....sounds like you guys have a much better process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaery Posted August 11, 2014 Report Share Posted August 11, 2014 I would like you to mic the point to barb tip length and have a stab at the max rad dimensions, as shown on my PDF. One or two dimensions were missing, but enough there for me to have a stab at. I got your email. Sending a reply now. DAve I know you need all of them but which one first? 90768-3/0? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted August 12, 2014 Report Share Posted August 12, 2014 David - what ever you guys want to give me. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
