robbor Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Hello Ive been thinking about tackle making and spincasting for a while but was discouraged after talking to tekcast about silicone for molds. I recently ran across Contenti spincasting mold silicones and rubbers and the prices were very reasonable and I would rather spend less time making more lures that casting one at a time. Can some tell me more about cutting vents and gates and sprues, why not cast them into the mold? I would really be interested in gate sizes needed for small jigs. How about vulcanizing, I figure i could come up with come type of metal form to compress the mold onto the masters but is ther an easy way to vulcanize without a vulcanizer? I have heard of boiling in water to vulc small molds but go me thinking about air boiling inside the mold or trying in the oven. And how much should I compress the silicone when making a frame? I was tinking about just going with the 9in rubber. Next is does the mold need to be in a frame when casting? I am guessing yes but on on the outside circumfrance to keep the mold centered as it spins so it doesnt fly off and spray lead. How about spinnerbaits and the like, in a small 9" frame? I was thinking that I could have the mold hold more if i had the wire forms sticking out of the mold(like casting them with the frames straight and not having the what ever holds the mold go up past slightly less than center. I would have to cut the wires on the origional masters to have them inside the frame for vulcanizing. I remember seeing some tutorials on making spincasting molds but cannot find any. As for the actual casting I was thinking about a homemade setup like a big disc sander with a vari ac power supply or geared for speed? What rpm is normally used? I was thinking along the lines of 100-300 rpm. Silicone mold thickness??? The mold silicone come in 1/4 in sheets and some of the lures I want to cast are only 1/100 oz so the or only about 1/8" round or less, do I need the mold to be a full 1" thick to support itself? I was even thinking of a dual material mold. Using cheap $11 organic rubber on the bottem and top and then the better super high temp silicone where the lead actually flows? No clue if the organic and silicone will bond? I will ask the manufacture when ordering, just thought someone might mave tried. If someone knows any links showing homemade spincasting equip for ideas i would be very interested. Lastly the big question is enlarging masters? how can I do it. I have heard of materials to make enlargements buy do not remember if the mold enlarged or the actual part. I would like to increase the size of some lures by say 10-30% anybody know of a good method and materials? I am very interested in all the little details to make the best molds I can. Sorry so long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reeves Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 So many questions. As far as I can tell, there are only a few members that spincast on this site. I am one of them and have wished ever since finding this wonderful site, that there was a forum for spincasting. I purchased the equipment BEFORE knowing what I was doing or how to use it. Well, that has been a couple of years now and can fly on my own now. Vulcanizing is another animal and I have the failures to prove it. After several attempts, I feel that I have it down pat now. If you would like to email me and attack a couple of subjects at a time, I would be glad to share what knowledge I have learned with you. To answer on a post would take quite a while. George Reeves H&P Tackle Welch, OK reeves@junct.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedHed Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 reeves Would like to see your responses - if your not going to post will you copy on e-mail? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlaery Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 I purchased the equipment BEFORE knowing what I was doing or how to use it. Hey George, looks like we went to the same school. robber, wow, I with George, so many questions. I give some of my thoughts. I spin most molds at 600 to 1000 rpms. the smaller the part, the faster I have to spin. I only cut vents if I have to and 90% of my molds do not have vents. My hardest pours are, 1/100, 1/80th ball heads. A variable speed on rpms would be very helpful. You have to have clamping pressure on your mold, 25 to 35 psi. The mold is not spun in the clamping frame used for vulcanizing. Can some tell me more about cutting vents and gates and sprues, why not cast them into the mold? I would really be interested in gate sizes needed for small jigs This is tough to explain. This is the way you get the metal into your part (jig). Yes, you can put these in when you make the mold. It is easier to cut them after you make the mold. To vulcanize a mold, your clamping frame needs to be parallel and you clamp(vulcanizer). Has to be able to put pressure on the mold. 2000-3000 psi at 325 degree's for 1 hr 15 min for a 1" mold. I don't think you can use organic rubber as a backing for you silicone molds. I don't know how to enlarge parts other than powder paint them. When you vulcanize a mold the parts you reproduce are 5 to 10% lighter. A perfectly round ball head jig will not be perfectly round when you cast from the mold. It will be slightly flatter, 1 to 3% If you are tired of hand pouring, I would out source you casting. If you want a challenge, you are headed in the right direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbor Posted January 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 You answered most if not all of my questions. I can see how putting 25-35 psi on the mold when casting will make them flatter, and I know almost all silicones have shrinkage. Off the top of my head I can only think of adding a large weight to the top of the mold while casting to achieve the pressure. I am aslo aware the you do not pour in the vulcanizing frame. My main concern is getting the mold vulcanized and if I can do it in an oven or pot of water? I already figured I would have to make my vulcanizing frame from steel to get the pressure applied evenly and either put c-clamps on it or make it larger and have bolt holes around the outside to clamp it. I have no desire to send out for lures, I want to be able to cast when I have free time. I spoke to a guy a while back that made small ice fishing spoons(along the lines of a custom jigs and spins 2-spot) on a spincaster so they did not have to solder each one and seeing a mold for a small lure like that would give me alot of insight into gating a mold. I have seen a few images of gates and it looke like they use larger gate to get the lead closer to the lure for less heat loss and better flow if the lure are not already twards the center. I also did not realize how big 9" in diam is, its pretty big. I think I will be able to cast multiple sizes/styles of lures in one mold. such as buzzbaits out aways from center and them micro jigs in closer. A quick question on your small ball jig mold, would less pressure provide less gate deformation and thus better flow or would it just causeflow ito the parting line of the mold? Sorry about all the questions I would just like to know what Im in for. You guys need to get togather and come up with a spincast mold making tutorial. I ran across a web site a long time ago of a guy that made his own spincasting equipment but I was not able to find it recently. Oh, just thought of another question??? What indication do you normally get when a mold is becoming worn out??? Does the parting ling increase until you get flow or do the cavities become larger and sloppy. I am guessing less pressure for a newer or better mold and more for a poor quality or won out mold? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reeves Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 I think you have opened a whole new subject line here Robbor. As to casting multiple parts (buzzbaits and small jigs) in the same mold is possible, I believe Tekcast advertises this. I have a mold with different size jigs in it, but they are like parts. Signs of a worn out mold would be seams in your part and small chunks of silicone breaking loose and thus transferring into your part. A couple of advantages to spincasting is of course increased production and the ability to produce a part that does not require cleanup before painting. Seams are undesireable on baits. Clamp pressure is a VERY IMPORTANT part of spincasting. The casting machines are designed to apply even pressure to the entire surface of the mold and on both sides. Too much clamp pressure and you can restrict the flow of the lead through the gates. Too little and you come up with flashing and seams on the part. Vulcanizing also requires even pressure and heat. My vulcanizer weighs 550 lbs, and I don't know if the heavy plates can be substituted with C clamps or bolts. It would be worth a try and very viable if you could make it work. Let us know. You mentioned Contenti, very good company. I purchase my silicone and other materials from them. There is a guy there, and I think his name is Anthony, who is a wealth of information and more than willing to share and help you along. He really helped me in a lot of areas. Lastly, something I found out the hard way. You need HARD LEAD for spincasting, soft lead won't work. It is a combination of lead, tin and antimony and once you have the right stuff, look out cause there will be good parts piling up everywhere. LedHed, be glad to share anything with you, either via e-mail or postings. Hope to hear from you soon. George Reeves H&P Tackle Welch, OK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charkins Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 Count me in on reading the responses too. Been wondering about this. Saw a jeweler's equipment and got a rudimentary explanation on how it works. Cal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedHed Posted January 12, 2006 Report Share Posted January 12, 2006 You guys ? reeves and dlaery should do tutorials on spin casting and vulcanizing. Better yet if you guys could do a collaboration??. Thnx for the info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbor Posted January 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 I hit the local metal shop and was unable to fing anything with a 9" ID so im still looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbor Posted February 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 I am posting some info that I have found and other have shared. This is the simplest homemade spincaster I have ran across so far: (posted by someone else on a casting board) A spin caster can be made from a cheap drill press turned upside down. Mount the head upside down on the post below the upside down table. mount a platen in the chuck. a mold is then placed on the platen and a plate with a center hole is placed on top of the mold. Place a timken bearing on top of the top plate. The quill is then extended to press the timken against the upside down table with the bearing hole centered under the table hole- to pour through. Lock the quill when the platens are all tight in position and turn on the spindle at the slowest speed. Use some kind of a splash guard to contain any hot metal that may spin out of the mold. Let the thing spin for about 30 seconds after pouring to let the metal harden, turn off the spindle and take everything loose. As far as molds go the normal mold silicone used(from contenti) is their white series 500 and is pretty inexpensive. For small non spin cast molds you could try 1 or 2 jewelry mold frames stacked for desirable thisckness then vulcanize in an oven. If you bought (1) 12" disk set for like $40 you could easily make 4-8 small molds. Another very nice member on the board sent me a mold picture really opening my eyes to going the extra mile in making a mold. His mold starts off with a normal silicone mold disk. the jigs were layed on the disk and then small squares of silicone were placed over the the hook at the base of the jig and then they added metal pins for each hook eye. They used some normal antistick agent and then the top silicone disk and vulcanized it. When done the hook is permanently attached to the lower half of the mold you then make a cut straight down to the hook to remove and you end up with a kink on pop in hook holder and a tight seal to reduce lead flow. It was very nice. Alot of small spincasters are made with anything that will spin a mold and they make the mold from liquid rtv in a round frame and them put a weight on top or clamp. more links to follow Link to the making of whirly cast caster: http://www.granthams.com/Spincast/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reeves Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Rob, that is pretty cool the way they made that spincast machine, including graphics. Wish I had a shop with those capabilities. Are you planning on doing something like this? Keep us all posted of your adventure. George Reeves H&P Tackle Welch, OK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbor Posted February 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Yes I am going to make a spincaster, but it looks like Because of $$$ I wont be able to start for a few months. I got all the details worked out. By big problem was vulcanizing the mold. I found large 9 or 12" ss and steel companion flanges for a cooling tower on ebay that I will put a piece of obout 3/4 steel on either side and drill them throught for the flange bolts and then tighten them down and place in oven. Im no worying about the lead pot right now. I will have to come up with a big one. As for the spincaster I am still trying to get more detail or a pic if the pneumatic assembly, but will probable make on from scratch unless another drill press falls in my lap. The drill press idea is great. I have learned alot and talked to some very nice people. I am planning on building my own fluid bed also. I will probable build a small 3" pvc one first with dual coffe filters as the membrane but will end up building a one about 2" x 16" or so when I get closer. Hopefully I will get all my lur ideas created during the summer and do some testing and then start producing and be selling intime for next spring. small scale, crappie jig heads, spinner baits , buzzbaits, and maybe large worms. I played witha new design spinnerbait in the pool yesterday and it was promising but still needs adjusting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svepop Posted February 14, 2006 Report Share Posted February 14, 2006 Robbor, A guy on here, Randy(aka. Fatratz), shared this link with me to buy the polyethylene sheeting to make fluid bed cups. Hope this helps. Its like $24 for a 12"x12" piece. http://www.smallparts.com/products/descriptions/spe-peh-spp.cfm Use Part Number SPE-125/D Good luck, Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbor Posted February 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 Like myself never seeing and actual spincasting machine and wanting to build one can me tough. Someone finally sent me a pic and I am posting it for future ref and others. If you are all mechanically inclined you can look at the pic and see how its done. There is a cast outer collar bolted to the frame, then they would have 2 roller bearings to mount the next shaft which is hollow and threaded on the bottem to attach the pulley to. then inside the hollow portion should be 2 bushings which support the last shaft which the mold sits on. Im still working on matrials premade to see what I can do. I am looking into an auto motive hub and seeing what other surplus hollow hubs I can find to make this project happen. Hey svepop, I did a bunch of searches a while back and found your posts. their materal is kind of expensive and worse not really a demensoin I would look for to make my fluid bed 2 X 16 without a seam in the middle. I will try a small cup fluid bed first with a coffee filter menbrane to see it work first. It can only cost a few dollars to make. Then Later I will look for a another source for micron filter type material. I was thinking of an automotive filter but they have that V pattern. I looked in Mcmaster but found nothing. Thanks, Rob Oops forgot to resize and no photo shop on my computer, I will post later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedHed Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 "I looked in Mcmaster but found nothing. " Look for woven wire cloth and monofilament polypropylene mesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbor Posted March 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2006 Here goes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
