sagacious

Hawnjigs is correct that the alloy melting point is not usually proportional. Unfortunately, prediction of the melting point of alloys is not as straightforward as one might hope. It's not really a "melting-point" addition/subtraction situation. It's the chemical and thermodynamic properties of the mixture that determine the melting point. Sadly, one cannot just say, OK, it's 90% tin and 10% bismuth, so the melting point must equal to 90% of tin's melting point plus 10% of bismuth's melting point. Doesn't work that way with most metals. Why is the melting point of the alloy lower than one might otherwise suspect? Many metal combinations (alloys) that are even slightly miscible (mixable) have a eutectic point. The eutectic point is that exact ratio of the component metals that gives the lowest melting point. If there is a eutectic point, then there's a point where adding some of the higher melting point metal actually reduces the melting point of the lower melting-point metal. So, adding a tiny amount of copper to tin will actually drop the melting point to below that of pure tin. Here's an everyday example of how a mixture may have a lowered melting point. Consider that the melting/freezing point of water is 32*F. Consider also that the melting point of salt is way high. But mix salt into water and the melting/freezing point plummets to something like -6*F. Salt and water actually have a eutectic point, which is about 25% salt and 75% water. The same sort of thing commonly happens when metals are mixed, and results in a melting/freezing point lower than one might predict. Hope this sheds a little light on it. Regards, and good luck.

That's a fairly personal reply, Pirkfan, and seems undeservedly unfriendly. Sorry to disagree with your impressions, since your reply was open guesses and criticism of my suggestions, but now it's all turned to personal experience. I'm glad to hear your spinners only get bent on snags, and not fish, as that implies some fantastic luck. I wish you the best with that. I lived in Portland, OR for 9 years, and have spent a lot of time in salmon water there. It's a nice place to live. As it happens, I don't usually offer guesses as suggestions myself. A quick review of my modest gallery here will uncover a photo I uploaded a while back, showing a barely-legal lingcod and a bent spinner-jig in its mouth. Note that no swivel is between the hook and wire frame. Probably it would have been wiser and less embarrassing to check that before suggesting my advice borders on the mythical, but c'est la vie. I learned that swivel trick a while back, those not wishing to learn that lesson the same way may wish to simply put a swivel between the hook and spinner. To each their own. No disrespect meant.

I'm not guessing on any of the advice posted above. This is exactly what I do-- make and use spinners for large saltwater fish including chinook salmon. I had to learn it the hard way, as I initially made the same assumptions you have here. Over time, I have learned how to do it the right way, and the suggestions given above come from direct and actual experience and after having caught a lot of large fish on my lures. A standard large clevis will accommodate .050" wire. Get them here, or wherever you buy your components: FISHING TACKLE for bass fishing, crappie, walleye, trout.Fishing lures, fishing hooks, lead molds. BARLOWS FISHING TACKLE. I started with 0.37" wire. Let anyone who wishes to give that a go has been given fair warning lol! Salmon-- even smaller fish-- will twist a 0.37" wire spinner into, almost literally, a pretzel. Not just bent, but wrecked, and fish can easily be lost this way. Working with wire is like anything else, a little skill and practice goes a long way. Myself, I have no difficulties bending and forming .050" wire, and I dislike having my gear ruined on the first fish. It's even worse when someone else is fishing your gear, and it gets ruined on the first fish. There's no reason to allow that to happen when it's entirely preventable. If one uses swivels in a similar application, gear failure cannot be a rationale. This is hard-won information founded in on-the-water experience with using spinners for salmon, lingcod, and halibut. I use strong swivels because these are strong fish. If one does not use a swivel between the hook and spinner, the spinner will be predictably ruined. In addition to that, salmon are good at spitting hardware, and a swivel-to-hook markedly helps prevent the fish from throwing the hook. This is even more critical when barbless hooks are mandated. Just a head's-up based on my experience with this subject. Hope this helps, cheers all!

Good advice as always, Hawnjigs. Lead oxide dust can become airborne, and fluxing smoke must surely contain some particulate lead and oxides. Forewarned is forearmed. Everyone should be aware of the primary and practical concerns with handling lead, and be sure read up on lead-handling safety if you're not checked-out 100% on it.

Btw, Hawnjigs, I have recently heard that fluxing zinc-contaminated lead with ordinary elemental sulphur (get cheaply at a gardening/farming store) can successfully restore the fluidity of the lead by removing the zinc component as a sulfide. Fluxing procedure is slightly different than normal. Heat the lead to almost molten or partly molten, and smash it with a utensil to finely divide it into bits. Then sprinkle liberally with sulphur, and mash the sulphur into the subdivided lead. Once mashed/mixed with sulphur, heat the lead fully to liquidus, stirring continually. When liquid and stirred, skim off the crumbly dross. Pour into ingots, and flux normally with hydrocarbon flux upon the next melting. Test for 'pourability' in a quarantined vessel. Indications are that the lead can be salvaged by this simple method. Note that elemental sulphur can and will catch fire during fluxing, so take the normal fire precautions with this method. Hope this info comes in handy some day. Good luck, and stay safe!

From your description, it appears that your mold and/or lead is not hot enough. The lead should not "peel off in layers" when you try to cut it off the hook. That, and the "dents" are a sure indication of inadequate heat. The problem likely lies with the pourer and his technique-- it sounds unlikely that it lies with the lead itself. CLEAN the mold with solvent once. Dry completely. Smoke the cavities with a lighter. FLUX the lead! If you don't know how to do this like a pro, read the sticky posts at the top of this page. This step is critical, it is basic, and it is missing from your description of your pouring process. Fluxing cannot be overlooked. Do not ignore that advice, or skip any one of these steps. PRE-HEAT the mold by pouring the cavities with no hooks. Keep pouring until the castings are perfect, then start pouring with hooks. Hope this helps, good luck.

Good gravy! Molten lead does not give off lead vapor until heated WAY hotter than anyone is going to heat it to pour lures. It is a myth that molten lead gives off poisonous fumes at normal casting temps. Let's please not endlessly repeat the old wives-tales and myths we've heard at the campfire. The main vector of lead poisoning is ingestion of particulates and dust. Basic cleanliness and hygene, and common sense, will prevent that. Please read up on the basics of lead-handling safety in the sticky posts at the top of this page. Now, as far as cheaply melting lead, an old Coleman camp stove works very well, and is very cost efficient. A 1qt cast-iron (not aluminum) thriftstore pot will do very well for a melting pot. Find one at at garage sale, and you're set. Good luck, and be safe!

Salmon won't break the wire, but big chinook can reliably be expected to bend the spinners into pretzels. I would suggest .050" wire if you're serious. It is critical that you be SURE to put a swivel between the spinner and the hook. A swivel attached to an open-eye 5/0 or 6/0 siwash works great for that, and holds salmon very well. Good luck, hope this helps.

Yes, you can remedy this easily. Put a couple wraps of thin soft copper wire around the shank of the swivel eyelet that goes into the mold. Trim the wire ends close. That will seal-off the entrance to the inside of the swivel. Do not allow your swivels to become pre-warmed-- keep them at room temp. Hope this helps, good luck!

Dhockey11, The fluxing or "cleaning" of lead that we're referring to here is the separation of lead from other non-alloying compounds and metals, such a carbon compounds or metallic oxides. What you're probably referring to is isotopic separation. Isotopic separation of lead species does not confront the foundry-worker or lead user. No lead specie presents a radioactive hazard to the lead-user, even 210Pb, since 210Pb decays by alpha-emission and thus poses no hazard. Fluxing produces "clean" lead because it removes extraneous material, but not by separating the lead isotopes. Lead fluxing residue doesn't contain any radioactive materials. "Pure" labratory-grade lead is expensive because it is very nearly pure lead. 99.9% pure lead is not pure enough for lab use, and super-pure lead is costly because it's expensive to purify and certify. That's not the level of purity we're dealing with here. By clean, we mean, "has hardly any dirt in it.";) Hope this clarifies it a bit. Good fishing, sagacious

Looks good, Diemai. Keep on keepin' on! A stainless spoon like that, but about twice as long, and half as wide, would imitate our local saltwater baitfish species very well.

I just put a jump ring on a #1 or 2 willowleaf blade, and attach that to the split ring next to the hook. It flutters and clicks against the hook during the retrieve. It's simple and very effective.

When many metals are mixed together in the molten state, they combine chemically. That chemical reaction can produce a pourable, liquid, easy-to-use alloy. It can also produce an alloy with reduced pourability, and often it produces an alloy with much-reduced resistance to oxidation. The admixture of zinc and lead seems to exibit both of those deleterious characteristics, and when molten it forms dross aggressively. Soon the entire melt reacts chemically into a mass of slag or dross. At that point, the lead and zinc need to be separated by other means, and fluxing is of little help. It's very much like baking a cake. Once zinc and lead are melted together, it's difficult to unbake them. It would be a whole different world if we could mix any metal with another metal and expect to only combine the beneficial qualities of both. Hope this helps, good luck!

If it's heavy, it's still got a lot of lead in it. If the residue from fluxing (dross) leaves a solid metallic mass, then you need to flux the metal again. Often the lead will need to be fluxed more than once, especially with "scrap" lead-- simply repeat the fluxing process. Fluxing twice will usually separate all the dross into pure metal and black powder (metallic oxides and carbon compounds), and you'll recover all the lead that can be recovered. Could be zinc contamination, or it could be an antimony sludge buildup. If it's the latter, then an additional fluxing at higher heat (be generous with the flux) should reduce the dross to a liquid metal and a bluish-gray or black powder. If it's zinc contamination, additional heat usually won't do anything useful (you probably won't recover zinc or anything else). You can call your municipal waste-management authority and ask what to do with residue and ash from foundry work. They should have some suggestions/answers for you. Hope this helps, good luck!

Well you know what they say: Old tricks are the best tricks. Fluxing of lead alloys has been around since the Romans. Much of the info in the sticky on fluxing is a compilation of knowledge and practices gathered over a span of years-- some of it learned the hard way. Depending on your melting setup and production methods, one may wish to adjust the technique to suit conditions, but the main goal is to gain a solid understanding of the methods and benefits of fluxing your lead melt. For my application, paraffin wax chunks are still the most efficient fluxing medium for separating the dross from the lead. However, virtually any material that contains hydrocarbons will work to refine one's lead melt. Sawdust or used cooking oil will work as a fluxing agent, but present storage problems and aren't as convenient-- or safe-- in handling as a solid wax, such as beeswax. Good luck all, and stay safe!

I am not aware of any use for zinc in lead alloys. To my knowledge it's addition only has negative consequences, such as creating an aggressively-forming frothy dross scum and ruining the 'pourability' of the lead alloy. However, you may find a use for zinc in a zinc/bismuth alloy. I haven't worked or experimented with zinc/bismuth alloys, but I believe that zinc and bismuth are completely miscible. Tin is miscible in that alloy. You may wish to ask your bismuth supplier for suggestions on a Bi/Zn alloy ratio. You've been saving all those zinc tire weights, right?

Hard to say. It does look like classic zinc contamination, though. Sometimes, even when keeping an eye on the temp, a small zinc ww can slip through and melt, especially during fluxing. If it's not zinc, fluxing the dross mass at increasing heat and in quarantine should reduce it to a pourable alloy. If it won't cooperate, it's probably got some zinc in it. Hope this helps, let us know how it goes.

Harder lead will definitely shrink less than soft lead. With some very hard lead alloys there is no shrinkage at all, and in fact may expand slightly upon cooling. This is due to the growth of crystalline alloy compounds within the solidifying lead. Soft "pure" lead doesn't do that, and is thereby more affected by the volumetric changes caused by heating and cooling. When you pour overheated soft lead into a mold, you're actually pouring in less lead (by weight) than you think. When it cools, it shrinks and you may get a dent in your casting. The casting with the dent will always weigh less, obviously, than a perfect casting-- even though you poured the cavity completely full of molten lead. You poured in less lead because it increased in volume while it was overheated, and shrunk when it cooled. Harder lead alloys are usually less affected by this transition from the molten state to the solid. Even if the lead isn't overheated while pouring, the measured shrinkage of softer lead alloys is always greater than for harder lead alloys. You may notice this effect when soft lead castings fall free from a mold cavity easily, while hard lead castings sometimes stick a little in the same mold. It is common for some folks to pour hard lead (like ww lead) at a considerably higher temp than is optimal. The usual cause of this is a lack of proper fluxing of the lead. Once ww lead is fluxed, it does not require overheating to get perfect castings in most applications. The best practice is to always pour only as hot as needed, but no hotter than necessary. The best practice is to always pour only as hot as needed, but no hotter than necessary. As a general rule, the softer the lead and the larger the cavity volume, the more shrinkage that will occur, and especially if the lead is overheated. If you're pouring in the right temp range for your application, you may not notice any shrinkage at all. Hope this helps, good luck!

Scott, I have to hand it to you, your photos made the diagnosis simple. It's not common to have a pouring problem documented and explained so clearly. It makes identifying the fix much simpler and more accurate. The remedies I outlined will solve your problem. I purposely didn't suggest a temp range. There are many factors that can affect the temp range considerably, such as your specific alloy (soft lead to ww lead ratio), the mold size and cavity volume, the pour rate, whether you remelt the cut-off sprues immediately, etc, etc. The main goal is to find the temp range for your circumstances that doesn't produce dents or difficult pours, and then maintain a steady pouring rate. I've seen these shrinkage cavities many times. Occasionally it's tough to avoid entirely on large-volume castings, and especially so once the mold gets a bit too hot. Diagnosing this problem on smaller jigheads is fairly straightforward. The things to remember from this is that hotter isn't always better, and that softer isn't always better. I pour all jigs above 1/2oz from straight wheel-weight lead, and without any difficulty or problems at all. You may wish to give that a try and see if it works for your application. WW lead takes rocky-reef abuse much better than soft lead. Learning is what makes the difference here. Some folks struggle with the same problems for years without seeking a solution, or are so stubborn that they simply refuse to change their ways. Congrats on being flexible enough to accept and incorporate new knowledge into your pouring routine. More questions, just ask. Good luck and stay safe!

Scott, I have to respectfully correct your interpretation of the cause of the shrinkage cavities and "dents" in the photos posted above. The cause is well-known to be excessive lead temperature, and not deficient lead temp, or excessive soot. In the cases where you experienced shrinkage cavities, your lead was way too hot. This is very common, but commonly misunderstood. Hotter is definitely not always better, and softer is likewise not always better. The more you heat lead, the more it expands. That's why lead ingots sink in molten lead. The more you (over)heat it, the more it will shrink upon cooling. Shrinkage voids and "dents" result. Your post gives more cause to believe this is the reason. The second photo shows an eyelet recess that is filled with lead around the hook eye. That's another definite and diagnostic sign of quite excessive pouring temperature. As the photos show, there's no question the second jighead was poured at a higher temp than the first. Based on the size of the shrinkage cavity, the lead was really too hot. That you believed insufficient temp was the culprit is also an indication of even more overheating in the second photo. As you see, more heat = more shrinkage. Your third photo shows indications that after you removed the soot, your lead temp or mold temp were too low-- the solidification lines on the jighead are evidence of this. I can tell just from the photos that you're using fairly soft lead. The slight shrinkage cracks surrounding the shrinkage cavity in the first photo are a clear indication of this. Contrary to popular belief, "pure" or soft lead is much more likely to develop shrinkage cavities than is a more alloyed lead, such as wheel weights. Heavily alloyed lead, such as type metal, shrinks much less when overheated than soft lead, and may not show any shrinkage at all. Mold cavity volume is also a significant factor in shrinkage voids cause by excessive heat. The larger the volume of lead, the more shrinkage will show in the castings. A very small jighead may show no visible shrinkage cavity when poured from overheated lead, whereas the large 2lb "salmon weights" we use here on the West Coast show enormous shrinkage cavities when poured from soft lead that's overheated. The way to solve it is to either, 1) get a thermometer and reduce the pouring temp, and keep the lead at a constant temp that doesn't product dents with your lead alloy. Your pics show evidence of wild fluctuations in mold temp or lead temp, and likely both. Or, 2) add some wheel weight lead to your soft lead, say 50/50. This will further minimizing the effects of temp variations on the quality of your pours. Soot from smoking the mold also helps to reduce to effects of temp variation. Don't give up on smoking the mold cavities just yet. Hope this helps-- just thought you should know. Good luck and be safe! sagacious

My comments weren't directed at you, YJ. Just answering your question about can life really get that bad. For some people, yes. For others, no.

Well, I have an answer to your question. But you may not be willing to accept it. The short answer is, yes, for some folks life really must be that bad. Some people can hack the trials of Lot, and some people simply cannot. The stark truth that one must accept is this: As a species, when humans are subjected to severe stress such as financial ruin, the end of a marriage/relationship/friendship, the loss or estrangement of one's children, loss of career, severe embarrassment or loss of reputation, familial stresses, and other emotionally-severe stresses, a person can rapidly reach the end of his rope. This is just the way we're wired. And whether we choose to accept it or not, this fact applies to each and all of us. We all carry with us the potential to act in this way. And what that means further, is that when you hear that someone is undergoing a nasty divorce and facing the loss of their children and some family relationships, there exists the potential that that otherwise completely normal person will load all their children into the minivan and drive it into the nearest lake. Or they may show up at work with a firearm. Or they may drive to a tall bridge. One need not be "crazy" to do this-- unfortunately, this is what humans sometimes do during stressful situations. So when you hear that someone you know is undergoing a stressful situation, lend them an ear and consider that their fuze may be shorter than you imagine. Well, you say, "That's just plumb nuts, Sagacious!" Not so. I have heard survivors who faced imminent catastrophe say, "Well, the only positive thing I could think of was that we would all die together as a family." I have heard survivors of plane crashes, maritime disasters, and natural disasters say that. What a curious thing to think was a "good" thing-- that the whole family should perish together. But nobody ever seems to think this is an odd thing for a survivor to say. Now, the ones that carry-out the catastrophe that claims their own family/friends/workmates also surely thought the same thing. Consider that for a moment. Both the "normal" survivors and the ones who drive the minivan into the lake seem to be thinking the exact same thing. We all carry the potential. So, don't let it surprise you. When stress strikes close to home, be aware of the potential and be prepared to act, and give the situation that nudge that will keep things on an even keel. Have a good day all, and keep safe. sagacious

Dave, Thank you for the feedback. A fire extinguisher suitable for having in a shop or garage is B and C rated. B (flammable liquid) and C (electrical fire) rated extinguishers are generally dry chemical extinguishers, and safe to aim at anything that's on fire in your shop-- and that would include flames in the vicinity of molten lead. However, note that controlled flame is often of considerable benefit during the refining and fluxing of lead, and all lead-melting and refining should be done in a location where these flames will not present any hazard of a structure fire (your example of refining lead in a back store-room is an excellent example of unsafe practice). But as always, even in the safest of situations, mistakes and accidents can happen-- and having a fire extinguisher available can prevent property damage and risk to life and limb. A small fire can spread to a building, and a dedicated fire extinguisher is needed to stop the spread. Just this week, I heard of an incident where a man melting lead burned his barn to the ground and lost tens of thousands of dollars of equipment. Common sense and a fire extinguisher goes a long way-- even these days. Never pour lead, use open flame, or operate an electrically-heated furnace without a BC-rated fire extinguisher nearby. Forewarned is forearmed. You have one answer in your post above. I dip the polished stainless core-wires in powdered mica before putting them in the molds. That prevents the lead from gripping the wire. A post in the wire-baits forum relating your query will undoubtedly attract more responses, as this is a thread is restricted to lead melting safety and techniques. Hope this helps, good luck and stay safe. sagacious

Hawnjigs, you've pretty much nailed the answer. The tin/bismuth eutectic component of the alloy is the sticky wicket. That component won't form what's called a "solid solution" with room-temp bismuth. So, at lower temps, only some of the Sn/Bi eutectic will melt-- but not the rest of the bismuth. As the eutectic melts it expands and some of it 'sweats' out of the alloy forming small silvery beads on the surface. In some high-tin alloys this common, and in this case 10% tin is plenty to cause this phenomenon. It can also often be seen upon melting tin/lead alloys that contain more than a few percent tin, especially simple binary Sn/Pb alloys. Usually, if you reduce the heat the silvery beads will cool, contract, and collapse back into the base metal matrix. In the case of a jighead painted with powderpaint, the eutectic sweat bead(s) form and extrude through the softened powdercoat. As the powdercoat cures, it seals and cuts off the 'escape route' of the liquid metal bead, leaving it stranded on the surface of the painted jig. Your metallurgy 101 quiz is over, students. Time's up, pencils's down!

Well, one might think that would be the case-- since we've all been 'told' how circle hooks work. But it does work none the less. I use the big Mustad 10/0 EZ-Baiter circle hooks on some of my 4oz+ bullet-head saltwater jigs (with a separate eye). That hook has a long shank, which is unlike most c-hooks. It's a killer on rockfish, stripers, lingcod, and halibut. When you get a hit, just reel down tight to the fish and then put full pressure on, and you're now hooked-up. There's no trick to it. The fish aren't always hooked in the corner of the jaw-- they may be hooked in the side of the jaw, and I've even had 'em get hooked on the tip of the lower jaw with a c-hook jig-- but they get hooked just the same. The advantages are the same as when c-hooks are used in more conventional applications: First, the hooks stay fully sharp all day long, even when fishing in very rocky areas (the hook point is turned in and does not contact the rocks). Second, gear loss and snags are reduced considerably. Third, a fish hooked on a c-hook is as good as in the box-- they virtually never shake loose from that circle. Fourth, the incidence of deeply-hooked or gill-hooked fish is very low. That's on-the-water experience. I can't speak specifically to the c-style jig hook you're referring to, Hawnjigs, but you might want to give it a try. Hope this helps, good luck!