[Why Are My Swimbaits Surfacing?]

@ porkmeatballs

 

I have only made a handful of swimbaits so far , always tried to let them sink at a horizontal level , but for no other reason but a natural appearance .

 

But I figure out , that a slightly head-down sinking level might enhance  a deeper running of the bait , .....though I'm not sure about that .

 

All I know is , that down the single segments from front to rear the ballast per each segment should decrease , meaning that most ballast should sit in the first section , the second heaviest load in the second section and just a little or possibly no ballast in the third and especially the following sections down the rear .

 

To let a swimbait do it's snaking motions , vortices down the flanks are generated by the first and biggest section , these vortices flowing down the flanks of the bait cause the second , third and following section to move sidewards to achieve the typical snaking action ,.......so if these rear sections would become too heavy due to added ballast , the vortices would come to lack sufficient power to move those heavier sections and the bait won't work well anymore .

 

This is why the first section in front is usually the biggest and most voluminous section of the bait , ....it is the "engine" of the entire bait , so to speak , ......if any rear sections would be made as big and voluminous , the bait won't perform, ........well , apart from a two-section bait !

 

But I won't call such a typical swimbait , but some sort of a two-section glidebait , as it won't "snake" within, but come back in a wave pattern at constant pull or break out sideward on initial jerks .

 

Greetings , Dieter

[Why Are My Swimbaits Surfacing?]

To me , it's the nature of the business , that such lures rise to the surface on retrieve more or less , .....they are just not suited to fish depths beyond 10 feet .

 

To keep them that deep at all, one must place more weight , possibly into the front and second section only(overweighting rear sections kills their snaking action) to let them sink at a rate of about one foot/second , ...second option is , in conjunction with more ballast , to place a more or less downward pointing diving bill underneath the chin .

 

Also one should pause the retrieve now and then to allow the bait to drop back to maintain it's working depth.

 

Good luck , Dieter

[Lures On A Lathe]

Are there some example's of lures turned on the lathe?

or a link to find them on the web

I don't mean to be bragging , ...but you may browse through my gallery , through the years I have made quite a few versions of different lathe turned lures , ....not the most prettiest lures though , but many variations .

 

http://www.tackleunderground.com/community/gallery/member/17895-diemai/

 

You might also check out this list-up of different collector's sites , .....a lot of vintage lure model were lathe-turned , ....you'd surely find some inspiration in there :

 

http://www.thehardbaitdatabase.com/Collector_s_Links.html

 

Good Luck , Dieter

[Lathe Lures Will Not Wobble And Walk Straight]

@ pescabaits

 

The two lures on top do not work , because the diving planes are too small compared to the body diameter and volume .

 

Compared to the common added crankbait lips of metal and plastic mounted below the chin of a lurebody , these integrated diving vanes already do provide somewhat less and softer action to a lure , ...simply because they cannot generate so much leverage around the tow eye .

 

And on these two lures the diving planes are so small and do not even pass over the belly diameter of the the rest of the lure body , so even less leverage can be generated , .......a diving plane should always protrude over the belly diameter , ..the more it does , the more leverage and the more action can be generated , ...to an extend , that the lure can even overturn and blow out , if either the diving lip is too long or the tow eye placed too high .

 

The lower lure would certainlky come up with some kinda action , as the lip is longer and does protrude over the body diameter , .......but you have made the thickest body portion right behind the lip , .....this means , that the lure has it's greatest buoyancy in front , now the lip might get to sit too high and not shoulder into the water perfectly .

 

You might try to add some ballast to the front body to overcome this issue , but I have learned , that any kind of belly ballast to such lures with integrated diving planes dampens their wiggling action more or less , ......simply because these lips do not provide as much leverage and do have difficulties with moving around added ballast .

 

You must try to place the ballast deep into the belly right on the lengthwise center axis , right in the center of gravity , ......it should act neutral there and not affect the wiggle , but allow the front portion to hang deeper .

 

Such lures and also banana lures with integrated diving vanes must have their greatest buoyancy in the center of body or slighly behind , ...causing them to float up horizontal or slighly head down , ...this way the diving vane shoulders nicely into the water and they should perform flawless .

 

A shorter , egg shaped body of this type of lure would swim more irregular with a kinda "drunken" hunting action , but still wiggle within ,......a more elongated body would swim more stable , wiggle more regular and won't hunt as much ,....simply because a longer body has more guidance in the water , ......but remember , it is essential to let the diving plane protrude over the belly !

 

Good luck , Dieter

[Lures On A Lathe]

@ Jwbright

 

I love making lureblanks on my lathe , ...maybe , it's because I do not have a bandsaw ???

 

Most likely I'm making versions of vintage lure models , for example the "Rush Tango Minnow" , but also  "Pikie" style lures , many other proven catchers of yesteryear can be made on a lathe , too !

 

Also I 've been into experiments with a few versions of typical striper bass lures , as already mentioned in another post above , ......many of these are perfectly suited for northern pike over here in Europe .

 

Is there anything in particular , that you'd like to know about turning down timber lures ?

 

Greetings , Dieter

[Vintage Style Wobbler On A Lathe]

@ pescabaits

 

Are you that Dutch fellow angler , that had just commented on that particular YouTube clip above ?

 

Just wrote a reply there advising you to join in here and put up some pics and describtions of your faulty  lures , .......kinda funny , that you are already here , .......welcome to TU !

 

So well, ......please do , as Dave had told you , ....we need pictures to determine about your problems , ....most likely it would be possible to help someone out !

 

One thing I can already tell you , ......if your lure should be of this style sporting an integrated diving vane , any ballast would most likely do harm actionwise , ...such lures can't easily handle ballast  like lures with their diving lips mounted somewhere below their chins .

 

Also if you use material , that is too buoyant for a lure , that is too large and voluminous , it may not dive easily , as it's likely to pop back to the surface , .....but otherwise , as a rule of thumb , .......more buoyant materials do provide an easier to achieve wiggle compared to denser materials , ......but also materials must be matched to lure size and volume somehow .

 

BUT these are just a few aspects about lure dynamics to take into consideration , ....there are a some more , but impossible to figure out without any pictures an descriptions .

 

Greetz , Dieter

[Copy/paste]

I WAS THINKING THE SAME...i use...... ie......

So well , ......looks like surfing TU requires a change of the browser to use the site's full potential , ...it had troubled me enough , before I've figured out !

 

Good luck , Dieter

[Grandma Lure Question]

@ aulrich

 

To utilize that "GrandMa" shape as a glider/stickbait I would tend to turn it upside down , .......dunno exactly why , but in that given configuration I have concerns about good function .

 

If the back turns to belly , your main belly  ballast in front would come to sit a bit deeper to stabilize the lure's upright level resulting into a better gliding performance , also you'd render the more buoyant body portion upward also providing a tendency to the lure not to cant that much on each jerk , thus better transforming the momentum into a gliding motion .  

 

Greetings , Dieter

[Copy/paste]

Had issues as well using Internet Explorer browser , providing links in my posts on TU would not work either , .....switched over to Telekom browser(my providing company) , no such issues anymore now , all fine !

 

So you might try a different browser as well ?

 

Good luck , Dieter

[What Type Of Magnets To Use.]

Dieter,

That is a clever idea, and well executed!

Thanks , Mark , ...but so far it remained the only one of this type , always too many new ideas on my mind .

 

Greetings , Dieter

[What Type Of Magnets To Use.]

Years ago I had used magnetic sheet to assist in fixing hookshanks against a lurebody .

 

I bought this about  5" x  3"  sheet in a local hardware store , wasn't too expensive .

 

The foil is about 1,5 millimetres thick and has an adhesive backing , just like duct tape .

 

One can cut it to size with strong scissors or snips .

 

Glued it into the lure blank with a drop of epoxy and painted and topcoated it over finally , it would not lose it's function due to the paint coats .

 

Here is a crude video of the lure blank showing the magnet sheet pieces embedded into pouches cut into the back od the lure at  0:30 , ....sorry for inconvinience , but somehow that video had lost quite a few frames , yet the subject is still visible .

 

 

Greetings , Dieter

[Buck Perry Spoonplug Question]

@ clemmy

 

Thanks a lot for chiming in with all of that valuable info , ....and also thanks for linking that video , I've also checked other videos on that particular channel , too, ...some great info about spoonplugging containing in different clips there .

 

OK , nowadays in the days of sonar and GPS that spoonplug might have lost it's purpose as an aid for bottom structure mapping , but to me it surely remains a different kind of lure to try in our heavily pressured local waters .

 

As said before , these spoonplugs never made their way across the Great Pond , and I'm pretty much sure , that I could use them for my own fishing with some success .

 

Even harder to await the end of the local lure fishing closing time May 1st now   , .........greetings , Dieter

[Buck Perry Spoonplug Question]

Thanks a lot for your kind words , folks , .....I really can't wait to try these in the outdoors as from May 1st on .

 

Some more versions on my mind , at first a spoonplug with multiple line attachement options , just to see , which effect such would have on the lure's action .

 

To achieve this , I would just drill some more holes in line to be able to switch the attachement duolock snap up or down , ...that would be the easiest way .

 

Another version would be a spoonplug rigged with a rigid large single hook , just to find out ,whether this way one could avoid too many bottom snags .

 

Also I wonder , whether the heavier versions of the spoonplug would work in heavy river currents , ......lots of things to explore for me .

 

Dave , the inventor of this spoon , Mr. Elwood L. "Buck" Perry , was a teacher for physics and maths by the time he designed this lure , ...so I'm pretty much sure , that there ought to be an important purpose for these little fins , ......I reckon , that it would be to push the lure back to an upright position , as it falls to one side , ....just what the body buoyancy does on a timber crankbait ?

 

Ben , .....hahaha , Mark used to call me "Metal Meister" as well , ...I'm just into metal lures for more than 25 years now , .......and , .... Dave ,..the good old days of 1970's Glamrock , ....."Metal Guru" , ....really liked those bands back in the day being a young teenager , still in school , .....must have been in another, previous life !

 

Fishon , ......never saw any other than obviously Buck's original spoonplugs on US-Ebay , there are quite a few offerings , though .

 

Only wanted to buy one to make my own version , I do not collect lures , at least not in the sense of the meaning .

 

The spoonplug seems to be unknown over here in Germany , never read about it anywhere .

 

There has been a similar lure(well , ....not that similar by shape , but by material and probably by action) , put out by the DAM(Deutsche Angelgeräte Manufaktur , in English "German fishing tackle manufactury)around 1960 or 1961 .

 

I have a 1961 DAM catalog and it is stated "NEW" in there , but I really do not know , how long it was sold in it's four different versions between 4cms and 7cms length , on rare occassions one may find them on Ebay or on fleamarkets .

 

Used to have one from a fleamarket , ...sold it on Ebay with 800% profit !

 

If you're interested , by 8:30 of this video you can see this lure , named "Banana Spoon" in that catalog , ...I could not find any other picture in the web .

 

 

Greetings , Dieter

[Buck Perry Spoonplug Question]

Hi , folks ,

 

OK , this thread of mine is well over 2 years old , also I've been absent for a while on

 

Best greetings , Dieter

[Back Up And Running]

I was absent for a while ,just spectating now and then , ........ but just yesterday I wanted to post again , tried both gallery and forums, ....and it did not work !

 

Second time this would happen to me on TU trough the years , ...Murphy's Law , I guess !

 

Curt , ...thanks a lot for your work and efforts to get the site back online       , ....best greetings , Dieter

[Jitterbug Lip]

Im trying to fid the angle to place the bills. I use 2 colorado spinner blades side by side makes a perfect bill

I've always made the slant for the "Jitterbug" lips at 45° to the lengthwise axis  of the lure , ....worked out lure for lure equally well , ....made a few years ago .

 

But I think , that about 10° more or less would also make up for some kind of action , .....maybe a more forward pointing lip would generate less noise and let the lure rather skim the surface with a more ponounced tail shake , whereas an angle less than 45° would create a bigger bow wave and increased commotion , ..........but all of this is my own guess , I've always stuck to 45° and was fine with it !

 

@ all

 

Some interesting posts these are , .....yeras ago I had also read a German blog containing a spoon making tut  , where the author had used a block of lead as an "anvil" , also utilizing a ball peen hammer to shape the spoon blades .

 

Greetings , Dieter

[Bass Oreno Weight Question]

Hahaha , ....that hurts , to see your lure nailed to the bottom and yet be unable to salvage it !

 

Greetz , Dieter

[Bass Oreno Weight Question]

Would love to see your deep diving Zander cranks I hope you post in the gallery when complete. David J

Haha , one guy on a German luremaking forum also stated interest in such lures and asked to open a thread on these , when the time would have come ,  .....but yet I'm still fooling around with ideas ,....just in my mind so far .

 

Almost everybody uses plastic lures for zander here in the big river "Elbe" , but I do not like using them too much , since they snag up and tear off very often at the submerged portions of the groines there .

 

I'm guessing , that buoyant crankbaits with a longer lip would just not wedge themselves into the gaps inbetween the groine's rocky base that easily , compared to plastic lures rigged onto leadheads , ....they'd just bounce off or even get driven out by the strong currents there .

 

Zander(European walleye) most likely stay on the bottom , only a fraction of all catches are made in the upper water column ,whilst zander are actively hunting , ......... so I need lures , that would run between 10 to 25 feet deep , sporting slender and narrow deep diving lips to engage into the strong , tidal currents(yes , we still have about 10 feet tide lift pressing upstream from the North Sea)without putting too much pressure on the rod , but yet allowing the lure to constantly bounce and plough the most likely sandy bottom inbetween the groines , .........either right inbetween , where it is a bit shallower , ...or a bit further out in deeper water , where the reverse currents meet the main stream of the river .

 

Zander are also said to prefer slim , minnow shaped lures over more voluminous crankbaits, ....body length should be about 4" to 5" , ...in cold water towards fall and winter the lure size may increase by 1" to 3" , .......also I'd like to put a good casting performance into my zander lures .

 

Not many guys are using crankbaits in the river , as the inevitable lure losses there can get quite costly , but being a seasoned lure carver I can make my baits at a fraction of the cost required to spend at the tackle  shop , .......and even better , ....I can make them the way I want to match my personal fishing demands .

 

My intention about designing such special river zander lures was spawned last late summer , when a huge  , at least 36" zander , came following my "Stump Jumper"(Australian crankbait model sporting interchangeable lips for different diving depths and swímming actions) right to my feet , .....yet without taking it .

 

So well , just a bit more brainstorming and sketching and I might finally give it a go !

 

These are about the places and conditions my zander lures must match , .....also an older video of mine  :

 

 

......and to finally get back to topic of this thread , ...here is an older and almost forgotten video of mine , that I had found when looking for the above view of the "Elbe" river :

 

 

Greetz , Dieter

[Bass Oreno Weight Question]

Hi , David ,

 

Too familar with this , ....always too little time to spend with the things we like !

 

Thanks a lot for further describtions of the swimming action of your plugs , I appreciate this very much .

 

Yet I do not think , that you could palce the line ties much higher upward than the center axis , you'd soon get into having the lures overturn , I reckon,.....many years ago I've been into such trials in order to get plugs to dive deeper , .......when overturning , I had tried to counterweight with belly ballast  , ....no overturning anymore , ....but the wiggling action became dampened most significantly !

 

I aggree with you regarding the action of rather cylindrycal salmon plugs sporting a rather short taper versus plugs tapered almost over their entire length ,.......first type has the better and far mor pronounced wiggle , sceond one rather swims in a general "S"-pattern with only very little wiggle to the lure itsself , .....the longer the lure , the more guidance in the water and the lest wiggle .

 

Anyway , both types of plugs have their space in the lure angler's armory , they'd just appeal to different species , ....the rather cylindrical version would be better suited for pike , bass and musky ,.....whereas the strong taper would be more suited for salmon and different kinds of trout , I guess ?

 

Presently I cannot build any plugs(at least medium and larger sized ones) , since I ran out of lure components , namely screweyes , .....need to mailorder some new ones from the US , could take a little while to get to destination , ......anyway , still working on some  different lures right now ,...and still there are a few other projects on my to-do list as well , ........like sinking glidebaits to be worked with reel handle cranks alone ,.........and special deep diving zander cranks for river currents , .......before the 2016 lure fishing season would start again over here May 1st , right now we have closing time , ....ponds are iced-up , anyway .

 

But I surely do a version of your plugs , also wanna try a jointed "Bass Oreno" with a slightly curved rear section , as I had seen on YouTube , guess , that I had linked the video before ?

 

So it might take a while before you'd see some new plugs from my own stable   , ...........thanks a lot again , ,...best greetings , Dieter

[Weights And Measurements]

One interesting thing here  in Germany is , that even after having gone officially metric in 1871(dozens of small kingdoms , earlhoods , counties and cities all using different measurements and currencies became united to one nation) , people are still using "pounds" as a weight measure(our pound counts for 500 grams , not to confuse with the English  lbs. pound holding 454 grams , so roughly 10% less).

 

Anglers talking fish weights face to face ,..it's always "pounds" , ............. buying butter in the supermarket or potatoes at the weekly market , ......it's always pounds talk(the usual butter pack over here is at a half pound=250grams contents) , ......larger amounts of potatoes are also talked about in "Zentner"(1 Zentner equals 50 kilograms) , .......baking recipes are passed on by mouth using quarter pounds and half pounds of ingredients amounts .

 

But as soon as things get written down, they jump to full grams and kilograms units again , ...it's kinda funny , ........but still quite easy , though , as the "Pound" and "Zentner" are exact parts or multiples of grams and kilograms .

 

Greetz , Dieter

[Bass Oreno Weight Question]

@ Jordanlures

 

Just logged in from my work tonite , David , ....got some time to spare .

 

I remember to have made two plugs sporting such "shovel nose" , but these are strongly tapered down the rear , just like salmon plugs .

 

If my memory serves me right , these swam in a wide wave pattern without too much of a wiggle , ...don't consider this action to be very appealing to local pike , so I haven't thrown them much .

 

But I'm sure , that rather fat bodied plugs with such cupped diving plane would come up with a good wiggle quite similar to a "Bass Oreno" .

 

I've made similar , but yet shorter plugs  , sporting a small tailspin , ......displayed in my personal gallery(sorry , can't provide a link right now using the crappy Internet Explorer here) , maybe , you have already seen them , .......tried so many things through the years .

 

Greetz , Dieter

[Nip-i-diddee]

@ DaleSW

 

Made such lures before , ...thru-wired and equipped with props fore and aft .

 

I would make the thru-wire in a way either to glue it into a belly slot passing all the way through the lure(a "U"-bend for the belly hook hanger and two long tag ends to the "U" to act as the prop shafts)or drill a center hole from the rear right down to hook hanger level and make a belly slot ahead of the hook hanger to insert the wire form from the front , ......off course all epoxied in thoroughly at final assembly of the blank , ....after sealing , but prior to painting .

 

I would utilize small p-o-p rivets passing over the prop shafts glued into either end of the blank to act as bearing surfaces for the props , .....as bearings to help the props to spin freely I would switch a small metal bead(spinner components) between prop and rivet head(front) and one or multiple beads between prop and the rear shaft closure wrapping closing the rear hook eye .

 

Multiple beads may act as spacers , if the hook should fall too close to the rear prop , ........there are hollow metal beads available to save on weight .

 

Do not make a simple wire shaft passing through a center bore with a figure 8 belly hook hanger or a simple swivel slit over it interally , as a fish hooked on the belly hook might then losen the glue bonds and pull the blank backward on the shaft binding the rear prop , ......the entire wireform requires to be thoroughly anchored to keep the lure functional .

 

Good luck , Dieter

 

PS : Shop-bought props would have their bore too large for wire forms , as they are made to fit screw eyes , ...in this case you would have to make p-o-p rivet bearings to the props as mentioned above , ...if the props cant too much on the wire , proper spinning would get hindered .

[Bass Oreno Weight Question]

@ Jordanlures

 

Out the door for my weekend shift, David , ....gonna reply throroughly Monday latest , ...greetz , Dieter

[Nip-i-diddee]

I like the look of that bait myself. I don't know the proper name for the parts and Dieter may have just named them but I would like to know. Not stealing a thread but have to ask while I have a chance.

What is the name of the gromit that goes into the bait at front and rear, to support the wire pulling thru? And where can they be found? Are they called bearings as was mention? I need to do that on some baits that I'm making.

Thanks much,

Dale

Hi , Dale ,

 

Such vintage lures barely have a thru-wire system , but are rigged with screw eyes , ...the parts , that you call "grommets" are called "cup washers"  , in this case they make up for bearing surfaces to let the props spin easier .

 

This particular lure sports "hook hangers" or "hook hanger plates" on it's belly , ......these make up for less hook swing , thus minimize hook rash and hook fouling on such vintage lures , on genuine vintage lures there are various styles of such hook hangers to be found , but nowadays only such are available .

 

Any lure component shop does carry such lure hardware , for example  http://lurepartsonline.com/ and also http://www.mooreslures.com/   does .

 

Greetz , Dieter

[Bass Oreno Weight Question]

@Jordanlures

 

Looking forward to see somemore of your plugs in the gallery some day , ...guess , that I've gotta make some more ones as well , ...your "Shovel Nose" plugs look very inspiring to me !

 

Greetz , Dieter