Big Pancho
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Posts posted by Big Pancho
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Wax is something I have never used. Most of my carving are made out of bake clay. At first using the clay it was very frustrating due to the clay gettng to hot and very hard to work with from the heat of my hands. I now got a good understanding on how the clay works. Here is an idea start two projects at one time. Whenever the clay is gettin to warm and hard to work with place it in the refrigerator for ten minutes. When waiting for the first project to cool down start on the second one and alternate the projects in and out of the refrigerator. Just my two cents. I hope this helps.
Pancho
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I have been playing around with many different silicones. What type did you get? I have had issues with platnum based silicones. Get the tined based stuff. It is much more forgiving. What I have been doing with my master copies is to spray them with automotive primer followed up with automotive paint. The smoother the outter surface of your copies will make a huge difference on how the molds will turn out. Once you pour into the glossy molds cavaties your baits will come out with a very nice sheen. As for your mold and having your baits come out dull. Try spraying the mold with silicone spray prior to pouring your baits. The silicone spray will leave a nice slick of oil on the inside of the mold and your finished pours will come out with a nicer sheen. I hope this helps.
Pancho
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Howdy Mike its Big Pancho. It was cool chatting with ya on the phone the other day. What I can suggest is purchasing a cheap set of carving tools for that bake clay. You can get a cheap set of the small carving tools for under 20.00 bucks at Micheals. Another tip would be to primer the clay with a thin coat of primer to start than apply more as it dies. If you apply to much primer onto the clay the primer will never dry properly. If you having problems with the clay getting to soft on ya stick it in the fridge for ten minutes. This will allow the clay to harden back up. I am no pro at this but have been playing with clay for about 4.5 years now. You got my number if you get in a jam shoot me another call. Good luck with your projects. Big Pancho
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Pancho, I hope you know that I respect your skills, experience and willingness to help the new pourers. You're a brother in all respects. But you are way off base here. First off, Bondo is roughly 1/3 the cost of the OOMOO I use when needed, $40 a gallon versus $150. I'm not saving a buck, I'm keeping money for my family instead of tossing it at the molds.
Also, if everything has already been tried then this would not be a forum for q and a, it would be a set of instructions and a list of suppliers, done deal. You do a disservice to yourself and the people who read and respect your words when you say things like that.
I've been an experience craftsman on a forum, helping to field newcomer questions, they get repetitive and old, but there are gems here and there. Everyone has something to add, please don't stifle that.
For the others that replied, especially Robalo, thank you guys. I now have several different application based methods developed for different molding and prototyping techniques.
Again, Pancho, love ya bro, you the man, but being the man means your words and actions carry weight.
Micheal first and fore most I can respect your opinion and I thank you for the nice compliment. What I should have said is folks should try RTV silicone. I feel it is the best method to make a mold. Now yes its expensive to use but your baits will always come out pristine. Now Micheal I have used and have tried many methods in making my molds cheaper but I do not like having to keep applying a release agent to the inexpensive mold. I figure the least oil residue I have to be in contact with the better. Now folks don't have to buy a full gallon to start off they can purchase the rtv in smaller quantities. A quart size of rtv silicone is roughly 30 to 40 bucks. I personally would think if someone spent countless hours in carving a hard master than I think they would be willing to spend the money to make a nice mold that they would be happy with. Now you mentioned different methods in casting your molds. I think if maybe you shared a few of these methods the gang on here would definitively would appreciate it. Now there is a way of stretching that high cost of silicone to your favor and that is by coating the outer surface of the hard master and making sure the master is coated with at least two coats of rtv silicone. Once the masters surface is completely cover and dry. The next step would be to fill in the rest of the mold box with a filler like bondo or plaster of paris. So now you have the best of both worlds a little amount of expensive rtv silicone and a inexpensive filler with the bondo or plaster of paris. Micheal we still need to get together for that fishing trip. You take care and God Bless you and yours.
Frank
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Have you guys ever tried using Fiberglass filler instead of bondo? I would think it would bond better and it will also be more water resistant. This also is a bondo like product that will sand real easy once it sets up. There is a product by the name of MAR GLASS that can be purchased at many auto paint supply houses or I believe they also carry it at PEPBOYS Auto part stores.
Frank
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Micheal its Big Pancho. Brother your killing me with the trying to save a buck in trying to make your master molds with a cheaper product other than silicone. When we all started this crazy hobby we all went through the same thing as you. But just bite the bullet and save and buy the silicone in a bulk five gallon pale. Remember this your baits will only be as good as the materials you make them with. Just my two cents. I am no pro at this bait making stuff but have put in a little time making a few. Brother best of luck to you with the bait business.
Frank
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Billy thanks for the information on the silicone. I have been playing with RTV silicone for the past three years and have never had anything like that happen to me. Than again I have never let the silicone sit for more than a week. I have never used aero silicone is it any good. What I have heard about it is durable and just a bit cheaper that the others on the market today. The only thing I can think of that caused the silicone to stick to the pan is that there was some sort of silicone spray that covered the pans surface. Thanks again for the info.
Frank
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CB I have been using sculpy clay for about three years now and really like it very much when carving up my baits. One tip I can give you is to primer the clay once you have it formed. Follow up by wet sanding the bait to remove all the sanding marks, If you have really deep sanding grooves you can always apply glazing puddy over the grooves . Re sand and apply a second coat of primer sand again and the bait should be ready for casting. Once you mold box is ready fasten you bait to the box and apply some pam cooking spray over the bait and inside the mold box. This lubricant will help you release your bait out of the POP. I hope this helps you with your projects.
Frank
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So most would agree that as I / we all continue this addictive hobby, as we cut a little here, tweak there, that in the grand scheme of things action should take fore front over appearance? You get the action you want and then add eyes, color or airbrush? Is this how you experienced lure makers go about it.......
Great question Stephen. This is a tough question to answer, Heres my take on this. I would think if you were making a shad style or fish shaped swimbait why not add the eyes to the lure. I feel if you can make a swimbait as realitic looking to a real fish than it will only increase your hook up ratio than a swimbait without eyes. Now many on here will respond and tell you that lures don't need eyes fish will eat them regardless. But try this out make a shad style lure with eyes and one without and see which one gets more strikes.
Another hard question to answer would be scent or no scent? my answer would be scented baits or some type of fish attactant. Again just my personal prefference.
BP
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Thank you Husky for the information on the materials. What type of paints and clear coat should I use once I pour the resin and the bait cures? Thanks in advance.
Frank
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Thank you Mark for the information on the decking material.Going to have to give that a try. What I am looking for some type of liquid Resin. I think I found out what I need on the Alumilite web site. They got some type of super plastic with hardener. I was kinda hoping some of the pro's on this site would chime in a help me out. There are some incredible lure on this site. This is my first attempt in making a hard lure and want to get as much information I can to get all the right materials. Thanks again Mark.
Frank
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Hello gang I have a question. What type of materials are required to make a top water hard bait. I got the soft plastic thing down pretty good. But I am trying to build my very first Hard bait.. This is the new mouse bait I am trying to make. Any input from you pro's would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Frank aka Big Pancho
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Jim here is my two cents Chris explained the main four materials in order to make the molds. Bondo (auto body filler) FGR (Fiber Glass Resin) RTV (Room Temperature Silicone) POP (Plaster Of Paris)
Jim my choice to start with will be POP this is keep the cost down until you get the hang of things. After your POP molds are made pour your baits and see how they work. The next step will be in the testing of the bait to see how they swim. There will be modifications to make at first in order to get your baits to swim true. This can get frustrating at times but hang in there it will work out in the end. I myself have made many baits that just did not work out. I have made only one piece mold and have not tried to make the two piece mold yet. Start with the one piece mold and work your way up. There is some really cool stuff on YOUTUBE. Type in two piece molds and they will show you step by step on how to do it. There is a guy making a silicone mold of a toy tree very informative. I think in order to make the two piece mold you will have to start with a hard mold of your bait in order to set half of the bait in clay; pour the mold material. Insert dowls in the first half of the mold on all four corners. Let this half cure. Than remove the dowls from the first half of the cured mold next mix the second half of the mold material and pour the second half. You will have to drill a top pour hole on the second half of the mold in order to pour the plastic in once you have poured the first half or bottom of your bait. It will take some time to learn when to pour different colors on top of each other. This is just trial and error. If you wait to long you will get cold cracks between layers. Stick to solid colors or two color at first and work your way into the other layers. This is a very fun hobby but it can get very addicting after awhile. Take you time and have fun making them. I will do my best to help with your questions. Check out these two sites there is a two piece molds and will give you an idea on how it is set up.
I took a 98 'cause I never liked a limo...
Frank
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Jim here is my two cents Chris explained the main four materials in order to make the molds. Bondo (auto body filler) FGR (Fiber Glass Resin) RTV (Room Temperature Silicone) POP (Plaster Of Paris)
Jim my choice to start with will be POP this is keep the cost down until you get the hang of things. After your POP molds are made pour your baits and see how they work. The next step will be in the testing of the bait to see how they swim. There will be modifications to make at first in order to get your baits to swim true. This can get frustrating at times but hang in there it will work out in the end. I myself have made many baits that just did not work out. I have made only one piece mold and have not tried to make the two piece mold yet. Start with the one piece mold and work your way up. After you have a good bait or baits this is when you can step it up and make the silicone molds. Silicone is very pricey at $130.00 dollars for a one gallon can. Silicone by far is the best material to use to make the molds. No release agent is necessary when pouring your baits. Pour the plastic let it set up and pull the bait right out of the mold. Very easy and the bait come out nice.
There is some really cool stuff on YOUTUBE. Type in two piece molds and they will show you step by step on how to do it. There is a guy making a silicone mold of a toy tree very informative. I think in order to make the two piece mold you will have to start with a hard mold of your bait in order to set half of the bait in clay; pour the mold material. Insert dowls in the first half of the mold on all four corners. Let this half cure. Than remove the dowls from the first half of the cured mold next mix the second half of the mold material and pour the second half. You will have to drill a top pour hole on the second half of the mold in order to pour the plastic in once you have poured the first half or bottom of your bait. It will take some time to learn when to pour different colors on top of each other. This is just trial and error. If you wait to long you will get cold cracks between layers. Stick to solid colors or two color at first and work your way into the other layers. This is a very fun hobby but it can get very addicting after awhile. Take you time and have fun making them. I will do my best to help with your questions.
Frank
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Del I believe that there will be a chemical reaction once water is introduced into the plastic and lead, I have seen this happen to other baits I have used. There will be a white chalky substance that will come out of the bait and also discoloration will form. I have noticed that Storm swimbaits wraps there internal lead in some type of thin and holographic film. I think this film is not only for the look but also to put a barrier around the raw lead in order for it not to cause the chemical reaction. Just my 2 cents. Thank for your input.
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Hello gang just wanted to thank you all for your help with my bait. I was not able to get the fins to work correctly so I removed the front fins and carve in a set of fins in the body. I kept the rear fin to give it a different look. It swim true now. I do have a question on the raw weight that is inside the bait. I know in time it will turn the rubber white. Is there any type of coating I can cover the raw lead in order to stop this from happening?. Any input would be appreciated. Here is the lead and hook set up I am using in the bait now. This hook and weight set up is out of a Storm swimbait. Also is there a mold out there for sale in order for me to make these for my future baits. Or is this something I need to make? Well gang thanks again for the help. Here is the bait without it's front fins and the weight and hook set up I am asking about. Till next time.
Big Pancho
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Thank you so much Del for the information on the fin placement. I will keep trying modification to get this thing to swim right. If it don't work off come the front fins. The bait swims great without the fins but I really like the look. The modification are kinda expensive. But what the hell I have to pay my dews as a newbie. Thanks again
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sorry posted twice. Still learning newbie mistake
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You want to sell 1 or 2 of those molds?
FinFever my bait is still in the design mode and I need to get it to swim right. Maybe at a later date I will think about selling the molds. But thanks for asking about the bait. I really like the way the bait turned out with the fins, and would like to keep them. I am going to maybe try what Dave and Patrick suggested making a few and different fin placements, and cross my fingers. Here is a larger one of my baits that will need some work as well. Thanks again guys for you input on the baits.
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What did Capt G. recommend???
Patrick I tried Capt G recommendation on his internal hook set up and it works great.The problem with this bait is that even with 1/2 ounce of lead in the bait the bait still rolls. I kinda know the problem lies on the angle of the lower fins. I am trying to get an answer as to what angle the fins should be at before I cast another silicone mold. This hobby is not cheep and I know we all learn from our mistakes but I would rather ask a question than to waist another 40.00 dollar on a mold that is not going to work. Till next time
Big Pancho
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Hello gang. Well I hope I do this right this time. I am new to making baits and need some advise as to what angle the lower front fin on my bait should be at. I can't seem to stop this guy from rolling. I have tried 3/8 to 1/2 lead inside of the bait but I know that the fin placement is all wrong. I found this out by removing the front fins and the bait swam true. The front of this bait is not wide so it don't plane like some of the larger bass swimbaits. Also where can I buy the internal weighted inserts for this bait? I can't seem to find them anywhere. Here is a picture of my problem bait. Thank you guys in advance.
Big Pancho
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Thank you so much for the information. On how the site works. I will try to post my questions and pictures in the correct forums. I enjoy this hobby a great deal and appreciate any help I can get from you pro's. Have a great evening. Big Pancho
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I believe you can post pictures in the threads if it relevant to the discussion. I think some were as you were asking about the fins and making your bait swim right. As far as just showing off your work, I believe it has to go into the Gallery. I don't know why they just didn't delete some of the pics and/or contact you. There are some benefits to being a paid member. I'm not sure what they are other than unlimited PM's. I'm sure someone with more more knowledge will chime in. In the meantime.........welcome and ask away!
Richard
Richard thanks for the reply. I am having a problem posting pictures in the Gallery that people are talking about. But I do not see on the page where to upload pictures. The only place I have found to submit a new thread in the soft plastic and Hard bait forum, and I would like to say thank you for any input you and the pro's can share to make my bait work better. I am just a rookie with a ton a questions and enjoy reading many of the post on this site. Have a great day.
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I haven't checked to see what has been deleted and what has not. But of the threads that you have started, have all been to display your work. This is not allowed in the forums, they must be posted to the gallery.
The forums are all about solving problems, new ideas, new solutions etc.
The gallery was introduced for displaying your work and collecting the acolades you justifiably deserve. It also separates TU from all the other lure building site, where you have to sieve through twenty posts of "wow, look at my new bait!!" before you find something interesting to read.
Dave
Dave thanks for the reply. I do have a question thou how can I get answers from you pro's if I can't show the baits that I need help with. I myself try to help as many people as I can with issues or problems. But I need to see what I am working with before I can work on it. Thanks again for the reply.
Mold Masters
in Soft Plastics
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Mr. Longhorn your baits look fantastic. Thanks for the tip on the wax. Now you just put my mind on a new project.
Pancho