Vodkaman, Question for ya!!
5 replies to this topic
Posted 31 October 2007 - 12:54 PM
Ok, I have been following your threads for a while concerning the deathroll and other various details concerning baits and believe me I have learned quite a few things although much of the technical jargon is way above my limited technical experience. My question is concerning the position of the line-tie on a lure and how closely it is positioned to the placement of the the lip. What will the outcome of the lures action be if the line tie is actually below the centerline of the bait and very close to the placement of the lip versus the the line tie being placed further away from the lip but inline with the center of the bait. Many of the shallow divers I have examined exhibit a line tie directly on top of the lip. I am just looking for your expertise as to why this may have been done with certain wooden lures such as the original big O
Posted 31 October 2007 - 08:19 PM
Sorry Blackjack, I am in Malaysia, big time difference, it is now 09:00 and I've just arrived in work. The question is a very good one and I would like to take a little more time to consider my answer to do justice to the question. Probably later today or evening (Malaysia time).
Posted 31 October 2007 - 10:08 PM
Blackjack. Like I said, good question. I had planned on writing an article on the subject in the future. I have just considered writing it now, but that would be the wrong thing to do, as I would need to make a few prototypes to test out my ideas and what is actually happening. So, all I can do at this time is present my thoughts on the subject.
As stated in the previous posts, the theory is that the forces on the lip balance with the forces on the body and determine the line angle and the angle of the dive. Move the eye forward and a shallower dive results. Move the eye to the rear and the dive angle increases, up to a maximum after which, any further adjustment will result in instability.
This instability could be due to the ballast positioned too far aft, or the lip to line angle passing 90 degrees. This second condition would probably cause death roll also. I have not mentioned it up to now, because I have not tested the theory out.
Getting back to your point. Given a lure with a particular dive angle, if the lip was reduced and the eye moved to the rear, a balance resulting in the same dive angle could be achieved without the necessity of mounting the eye in the lip. So in answer to your question, the eye position could be moved back off the lip and still maintain the dive performance. The reduced size of lip would in turn obviously reduce the action of the lure.
Because it is very popular to position the tow eye on the shallow angled lip for deep divers and has been for many years. This leads me to the conclusion that there must be a good reason for it, as positioning the eye on the lip is not the simplest construction to execute. The reason eludes me at this time, I haven’t worked it out yet. BUT I WILL!!!
Posted 05 November 2007 - 10:00 AM
Blackjack. The question that I have been wrestling with may have been different to your intended question, but the answer is the same. As stated in the death roll thread, the eye position determines the dive angle by balancing the water forces above and below the lip. Referring to the two diagrams that you have drawn, there is very little difference between the two eye positions. Looking at the lip angle, I would estimate the line angle to be about 30 degrees. This would give slightly more lip and therefore more dive angle on the lower diagram, but the difference would be small.
The problem that I was thinking about after all that theorizing, was why fit the eye to the lip when the geometry could be arranged to give the same dive angle with the lip on the body, a much simpler solution.
By exaggerating the situation, the answer becomes obvious. After the dive angle has been established by the above/below the eye balance, I stated that the lure would then take the path of least resistance. This is not true, rather it takes a path somewhere between the tow and the path of least resistance. This angle is dependant on the resistance of the lure. Imagine a pencil thin lure, set as a deep diver. The tow line is trying to pull the lure at say 40 degrees. Because it has little resistance, it will be pulled more toward the line than the path of least resistance. If the lure was wafer thin, it would have no resistance and would follow the tow line. If the lip was increased in size to 12 inches square, it would have a very large resistance and would follow a line closer to the path of least resistance.
So, the answer to my own question is, that a larger lip means more resistance and therefore a deeper dive angle. The balance still has to be set, by moving the eye position forward onto the lip.
Sorry the answer took so long. I learned a little more on the way!
Posted 06 November 2007 - 10:15 AM
QUESTION :My question is concerning the position of the line-tie on a lure and how closely it is positioned to the placement of the the lip. What will the outcome of the lures action be if the line tie is actually below the centerline of the bait and very close to the placement of the lip versus the the line tie being placed further away from the lip but inline with the center of the bait.
BASIC KNOWLEDGE ON HOW TO TUNE A LURE
If linetie is lower youŽll get a tighter narrower action
and if linetie is placed higher youŽll get a wider more erratic action
And if linetie is placed above centerline youŽll get somewhat of an "tomicaction" http://www.tomiclure...nstructions.htm