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Posted 09 December 2007 - 07:35 PM
Hey guys my name is Jimmie I live in Ohio im 30 yrs old and I paint lures in the winter time to pass the cold weather months.I recently began painting some baits for a pretty big bassmaster pro and he has hooked me up with some other guys and a small bait company.I usually paint with createx and epoxy with the devcon 2T but I was wandering if anybody new of a different kind of clearcoat that I could spray on just to speed things up a little help with the swimbaits im doingIm having trouble with all the nooks and crannies.I tried a spray can lacquer and that didnt turn out very good at all.Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.Thanks again guys for the help I really enjoy the site and hopefully before to long I will also be able to help people on this site as well but Ive only been doing this for about 7 or 8 months now so I dont have the expertise that many of you do
Posted 09 December 2007 - 09:19 PM
Jimmy- Apparently you can spray Dick Knight's clear coat, ( ad at top of page) I have only used it with a brush and it is super clear and tough- the down side is it takes about 12 hrs to touch dry and a week to cure, (any coating that takes a long time to cure is generally pretty tough). The fumes off it are pretty lethal, so you should all ways use a mask or extractor fan. I think there are a few guys spraying this on TU, maybe they will chime in here and sort you out .pete
Posted 10 December 2007 - 12:57 AM
Jimmy- I have been using Nason clear from Du Pont. It is a 2 part urthane. It sprays very good and I'm impressed with how it has done. I was using another urethane from Du Pont called Imron. I was given some to try from a paint representative and its the greatest stuff. Imron is outstanding, but it comes at a outstanding price. The Nason clear I picked up for 30.00 a quart. That includes both parts. I mix 10 ml (or cc) and I can spray about 10 lures with some left over. I would never run out of this stuff. It is a clear coat designed to be painted over panels on cars. I do spray side to side, then up down, put on turner and let flash for 5-7 mins, put on another coat, let it flash again. Hang it in the oven at 140 for 30 Mins. This cures the top coat faster. It does not fully cure until 3-6 days, but you can sand and finish after 6 hours with the above procedure. I dont sand at that point, but i figure if you can sand it, you could ship it. It is not tacky, and after 24 hours is really hard. I am just begining with this, but I already used lacquer and painted with a respirator anyway. It really works good. It is thin though. I have went back to devcon when I need that thicker finish(to cover sticker edges for instance). It is a car finishing product so it does look good and it is tough/flexible.
Posted 10 December 2007 - 02:02 AM
Doug - have you tried this Du Pont 'Imron' over Devcon 2T. I'm thinking it may make it more scratch resistant. pete
Posted 10 December 2007 - 10:14 PM
I have not. It actually never occurred to me to try that. The Imron was great by itself. I suppose if you wanted to have a high build it would be a great idea. Imron is an industrial paint system. It is made to be tough and chemical resistant. It is used from skyscrapers to trucks. I cannot find a source to by this except for a full gallon at a time. Trouble is, that costs $200-300 depending on the kind you want. I got some from a buddy that paints lures too and a DuPont guy gave it to him to try. We were looking for something that could stand up to the rocks here. Wiggle warts(with the bill painted) and lipless crankbaits with devcon just don't stand up to the rocks here. People drag them on the bottom and the epoxy chips and eventually will start to peel. Imron does not have that problem. I am using Nason now which is also from dupont. It is an automotive clear. It seems to be tough enough for my customers, but I have not field tested it quite as much as the Imron. You gave me a good idea though. I will shoot some Nason over devcon for some of my apps. I put some holographic foil on some of my colors and the nason dosn't build enough to cover the edges without showing the edge. Devcon will do that, but the nason should prevent the devcon from chipping and peeling. I'll let you know what happens. If you want to try the Imron, get some from a truck body shop. They might sell some to you from one of their opened gallons. Be very careful with it and store what you are using seperate from the rest. That way if you make a mistake, you only messed up a little bit, not your whole stock. I can tell you about baking it etc if you want to know. I wish I could get some more, i really do.
Posted 11 December 2007 - 06:11 AM
Doug thanks for the info. Where can I buy this nason clear at,and do you spray this with a regular airbrush gun?I paint with an Iwata hi line will this work in my gun and what do you clean it with? Also do you have to put the lures in the oven or is this just to speed things up a little?Thanks again I really appreciate it
Posted 11 December 2007 - 08:28 AM
I seen imron 500s clear coat and V-192s activator for $207 plus $15 for shipping on a buy it now on e-bay.
Posted 11 December 2007 - 12:08 PM
Imron has been around awhile, and it is terrifically tough stuff. It is also terrifically toxic, which must be why it isn't more popular. If you talk to enough auto painters, particularly custom guys, You'll find some who'll agree how good it is, and how they won't use it. You need a respirator approved for it, and just as important, full body coverage to keep it from being absorbed through the skin. I know of a doctor who warned a baitbuilder not to use it if he wanted to live a normal life span.
Jimmie, shoot Dicknite an email about spraying his topcoat. He sprays his lures with it. I brush it on; It is my favorite topcoat by far, and doesn't pull away from edges like epoxy does. It is also very scratch and scuff resistant--all around tough stuff. It would be great for swimbaits IMO. It is a moisture cure urethane.
Posted 11 December 2007 - 04:08 PM
Dean's dead on right.
I lost a friend, in his early 30's. He was the finisher for a sheet metal shop, and sprayed all the exotic finishes for them, including Imron. He developed leukemia and there was no donar match for a bone marrow transplant, so they couldn't irradiate his marrow to kill off the leukemia.
All that stuff is nasty.
No finish, no matter how durable or pretty, is worth your life or health.
Posted 11 December 2007 - 05:32 PM
Take Deans advice. Theres no reason to take the chance with Imron when you have a product like Dicknites around. Dean talked me into trying it and I am more than satisfied especially on repaints of plastic baits mostly because of the thinnest of it it wont add a lot of weight to your finished bait and it is extremely durable also.
It is also very scratch resistant
Posted 12 December 2007 - 06:09 AM
Dicknite is not any cheaper at $222 for a gallon, also I placed a order with dicknite, I e-mailed with no responce from them, they also claim that TU gets a discount but there is no order page for this, I paid full price to get it ordered.
Posted 12 December 2007 - 07:06 AM
Jim, there is not an order page for the TU discount, Dick's posted as much here on the board; he will take care of your discount though, just as he's always done for everyone at TU. If he didn't get back with you instantly, there is a reason; he's normally very prompt, and is simply a top notch guy with whom to do business.
Posted 12 December 2007 - 07:06 AM
Yeah Jim I had somewhat of the same problem so I wound up just sending Dick an e-mail and he responded quickly with an order form with a discount. I dont know how many baits you do but I only ordered a Quart to try it out and I am totally satisfied.
Hope this helps
Posted 12 December 2007 - 07:08 AM
Thanks, I figured something happened, maybe lost mail ?
I ordered a pint, I e-mailed last friday.
Posted 12 December 2007 - 01:45 PM
They got ahold of me, you need to e-mail them for a invoice.
I still do not know what happened to the first e-mail before I ordered.
Posted 12 December 2007 - 11:43 PM
hey sorry for the delayed reply. Ice storm here and it got my internet/cable. If the Dick nite's as good as they say, then that is the way to go. I do know that you need to use a respirator for any Organic compound type paint. The new standard in California is 2.1 VOC for paint. This has something to do with the weight of a gallon of product related to the VOC content. Basically its how much Vapors actually come off the product when curing. I think its in pounds. Many people make the mistake of not having adequate ventilation or using proper protection. The Nason I spray is just as toxic, but for that matter Lacquer has a high VOC content and can kill you just as dead. Ventilation and respirator is important. In fact, most water based paint manufactures will recommend a filter respirator to keep you from breathing the atomized pigment/whatever else is in there. It is not good for your lungs, and you don't get much warning, because it don't smell bad or give you a headache.
I have no idea what kind of compound Dick Nite's is but I would bet based on what I have heard about it, its a water based urethane. These are popular in CA for body shops because of the low/none VOC. But unless its pure water, you should have some type of breathing protection. Our lungs were not meant to breathe in that stuff and especially for extended periods of time.. I always wear gloves also when dealing with the stuff, but I think the lungs always need protecting. Its kind of like dealing with gasoline. If you fill up your car, I bet you don't always wear gloves. I also bet that if you were spraying it out of a airbrush or paint gun, inside your enclosed garage, you would know something is wrong and not want to breathe the stuff. We know it absorbs into your skin, but you absorb many more times the stuff through your mucus membranes than your skin.
To answer your question, I sprayed it with a Pashe H. I know its single action and all but it worked for this application very well. Imron is a little thicker than Nason, but it would spray pretty good as well. You can clean it with Lacquer thinner or acetone. As long as your airbrush can handle solvent based paint, it should handle these urethanes. Imron is old technology and it has high VOC, but for the applications I described, its hard to beat. Imron is a urethane and (some other component) based stuff. It is really only designed for surfaces that need to be ultra solvent resistant. It does require care for its use, but like I said, we all should be careful about what we are breathing in.
If you still want to buy one of these, any auto body paint supply place should be able to get it for you. I know at least for the Nason, other companies have similiar products. Baking these is not necessary, but it does speed up the curing process. This is different for each product, but if you get the technical information when you buy it, it really spells it out for you.
Mark,Very sorry to hear about your friend That died from Cancer. You are right, no finish is worth your life, so please take the proper precautions guys.
Posted 13 December 2007 - 08:50 AM
Thanks for you words. He was a good kid, and it was a real waste of a talented person with lots of years left.
Once upon a time, in a land called California, they used to sell solvent based contact cement only.
Another carpenter and I were using contact cement to hang 4'x8' sheets of paneling in a large conference room in an office building. We'd fit a half a dozen sheets, take them down and roll the glue on both the back of the paneling and on the drywall wall, let it "dry" to the touch, and then set them in position.
This was on a weekend, when the office building was totally empty, and way up on the 10th floor.
We had been working for about an hour, when we both realized we were pie eyed. We had to go down the elevator and through security to get outside for some fresh air. We didn't realized that the office's AC had been shut off for the weekend, so all the fumes had no where to go.
We managed to turn the AC on so we could keep working, and finished the job, but we both wound up with the worst head ache imaginable.
Lesson learned. Proper ventilation and breathing protection is vital to your health.