Modifying a Manns 30+?
46 replies to this topic
Posted 23 December 2007 - 08:18 PM
Just for sake of conversation heres the dive curve and related info:) kind of small...sorry
Posted 23 December 2007 - 09:35 PM
Thanks guys. I took a second look at my book and I have Precision Trolling, not Precision Casting and trolling my numbers were correct. What does Precision Casting say about the Luhr Jensen 3/4 ounce Hot Lips Express with 10 pound line? I live near Lake Travis, which has a lot of deep ledges (20-30 feet). I catch a lot of fish on drop shot, C-rig etc. Catching a limit is usually not a problem but getting a kicker fish is difficult. I have been experimenting with big deep diving cranks this year and the results have been very good with the bigger fish. Few people will throw these things all day long
Stringjam, are those Poes?
Oh, I have tried 8 pound line and have had poor results. Can we say "rocket launch" when the line snapped. Perhaps someone could recommend a good 8 pound cranking line. Ten pound has been the lower limit for me. A frend of mine uses 8 pound P-line, but I think the diameter is about the same as most companies 10.
Posted 24 December 2007 - 12:05 AM
I'm not sure I totally understand why a crankbait that can dive 30+ feet is a good thing, but here is a design idea I'm work on. Hope to start tank testing before new years:o
Posted 24 December 2007 - 12:12 AM
Luhr Jensen Hot Lips Express 3/4 oz = 19.5 ft on 70 ft cast with 10 lb line, 22 ft if you can cast 100 ft. 20.5 ft on a 70 ft cast with 8 lb line, 23 ft if you can cast 100 ft. It's the deepest stock crankbait in Precision Casting. I like 10 lb Izor Line XXX. I'd also try Power Pro 15 lb or Fireline 14 lb - both are about 6 lb diameter, will get down a couple of extra ft and add sensitivity. 10 lb fluorocarbon also has very thin diameter and better sensitivity.
Posted 24 December 2007 - 08:40 AM
Yup, it's the crank at the very bottom of the page
You can also order them straight from straight from Wordens (if US doesn't have them, or the colors you want - I've ordered from him before and he usually doesn't stock a lot of these in the winter).
It's the "1 oz." model in the drop box.
Just to let you know....the finish on these will sometimes split or crack (typical Poe's....and the Comp Cedars are the "Premium" line").....so you'll want to keep some epoxy handy to touch up splits in the finish. It's no biggie to me, but I realize some people won't want to deal with it.
IMO, however, it's worth it.......I stopped fishing with the Manns and LJ the first time I threw one of these - they are a supurb design.
I'll keep you updated on how I do with Marty's bait, too......I immediately started catching fish on the proto he sent me, and he just sent me another version that I think is going to be even better.....he does some great work:
Posted 24 December 2007 - 09:50 AM
Some guys out here in SoCal use 6lb test, and, after making their cast, use the trolling motor as they let line out to "extend" their cast before they start their retrieve to get cranks deeper.
It has become a tournament issue, with some local trails limiting the amount of line that can be let out to 10 yds, and outlawing the extension of a cast by use of the trolling motor.
But it works, and tournaments were won using it. That's why it was addressed and outlawed.
Posted 24 December 2007 - 09:53 AM
Wow, that bait looks like a killer. Please keep me in the loop if these work out and he wants to sell some.
I'll definately try the big Poes. I'm a big Poes fan, but have only used the RC, 300 and 400 series. I've repainted hundreds of them. The 400 just doesn't get deep enough for the clear water we have around here most of the time. When I fished Kentucky Lake back in the 80's this was the bait of choice. Lots of big bags caught on the 300 and 400. The LJ express about pulls your arm off, but with the fish I catch I don't care. I like that big sucker to get down there and hunt!
BobP, thanks for the line suggestions. I'll give them a try.
Mark, that technique has been used here also. No word on a ban yet.
Posted 24 December 2007 - 10:25 AM
I just called the guy at US Bass in Dover and ordered four. Nice guy. I'll give them a try this week.
Posted 24 December 2007 - 10:39 AM
I'll definitely keep you informed.....I'm surprised Marty hasn't chimed in yet - - I know he frequents this board. I've been impressed with everything I've gotten from him - - especially his little flatsided cranks.
He has done some really unique pieces.....check out this one that I recently got from him.....I've never seen anything this skinny - - I think I'm actually going to try using it for sight fishing this year...
I used his standard thickness crank extensively during the fall - - it has become one of my go-to baits for shallow cranking.
Posted 24 December 2007 - 12:27 PM
try 8lb power pro (1lb diam) and experiment with a flouro leader. Use a line conditioner on the braid so it comes off the spool easy and use a high end light spool reel. Combined with an 8' crankin' stick and a carolina rig like what's mentioned you can get some major depths! You can file bills down to dive at a sharper angle so the lure stays in the productive zone longer,but prepare to sacrifice a few baits learning how.
do you ever try heavy spinnerbaits? I've been throwing 2.5oz blades lately with some success. Another lure that stays in the zone much longer especially with a big colorado.
hope this helps.
Posted 24 December 2007 - 05:12 PM
does anyone remember how to do the fritz trick to the poe crankbaits. any print info. it was in a old bassmaster issue before fritz went to rapala. think he drilled under the bill and leaded it. drill size???? how deep???? thanks
Posted 24 December 2007 - 08:46 PM
I'll give the Power Pro a try, but I have used braid before for cranking and the problem I've had is if you a backlash you might as well get out your knife and start cutting. I use bigger braid, 30 pound test power pro for my topwater fishing. It works good for hooksets on long casts with sammys and super spooks. I will give it a try, as the smaller diameter should help. Where are you getting your 2.5 ounce spinnerbaits?
The Fritz deal is no more than adding lead to the chest of the bait. I used to have the video, but sold it. You may still be able to find it online. He drills the chest, about 1/4 inch deep at about a 45 degree angle to the bill between the bill and the first hook hanger. He then adds molten lead and when he gets it where he wants it he epoxies over the lead. I don't remember the drill bit size, but have some drilled and can give you the approximate size in the morning. Since every Poes "used to be" a little different (I already have a lifetime supply and haven't bought any 400's in years) you have to play with the weighting by testing each bait in a bucket of water. A key is to have the water at about the temp you intend to fish. I have some 400's that I weighted using this method that suspend beautifully in cold water, but will sink in warm summer water. I lighten them up by changing to number 4's and light split rings if I want to fish them in summer. The whole process requires adding weight and possibly drilling some out to lighten or drilling it all out, drilling deeper and adding more. One other thing, don't drill too deep or you will get into the hook hanger.
Posted 24 December 2007 - 08:55 PM
I ventured out to the shop and it looks like a 1/4 inch drill bit. I remember Fritz used a drill press, but held the bait in his hand as he did the drilling.
Posted 24 December 2007 - 09:54 PM
A big howdy from Morristown. I live 1 mile from Cherokee and about 12 miles from Douglas.
Posted 24 December 2007 - 11:30 PM
Heavy spinnerbaits: FLW mag this month has a short article on them. Here are some:
2.5 oz Blade Runner Guppy - bladerunnertackle.com $7.35
1 oz Booyah Double Willow - booyahbaits.com $5.74
1.5 oz StrikeZone Ledgebuster - no site $7.19
1 oz Stanley Big Shot - fishstanley.com price TBA
1 oz Cumberland Pro - cumberlandpro.com $5.49
I've thrown 1 and a 1.5 oz SB's, not sure I'd want to be heaving 2.5 oz very long. The Cumberland Pro gets the nod as the best quality for the price. I'm sure there are others, and you can roll your own with components from staminainc.com. There are probably other sources if you look at musky lure sites.
Posted 24 December 2007 - 11:56 PM
A good hidden head one in the 1.5 ounce size is made by one of the guys that posts in the wire forum. It has all the right stuff. He has a store on Ebay. DM Custom Baits
Posted 27 December 2007 - 04:12 PM
Well these tips straight from Bassmaster and two of their pros:
Filing and Drilling
Some anglers modify baits to make them run even deeper. Tennessee crankbait ace Ricky Shepherd thins the fat bill of his Mannís 30+ with a file. Heís careful not to change the billís outside dimensions, as this would hinder the lureís action. Shepherd claims that this shaved 30+ digs to 30 feet.
To modify one of your baits, thin the bottom of its lip with a fine metal finishing file or a grinding wheel. Thin evenly from one side to the other, and make sure you donít file off too much material. If the lip is too thin, it may chip as it bounces off hard objects on the bottom. Texas pro Alton Jones drills a 3/16-inch-diameter hole through the shell of his hollow Bomber BSD6F Suspending Fat Free Shad Jr. between the front hook and the base of the diving bill. He fills the hole with silicone and pushes a depression into it with a pencil eraser before the silicone sets. Once it dries, Jones fills the cavity with molten lead, trims it with a Dremel tool, and smooths everything off with sandpaper.
The link is http://www.fieldands...1078410,00.html
The only other one I can think of is using Paul Elias's kneel and reel technique. Hopefully they hook themselves.
Posted 27 December 2007 - 06:09 PM
Yeah, the lower you hold your rod tip, the deeper the lure, on a 1:1 basis. If you usually hold the rod horizontal, holding the tip at the water's surface will get you 3-4 ft deeper. It's the fastest way to get a deeper diving crankbait. If you kneel and stick the rod down in the water like Paul Elias, that works too but will reduce sensitivity.