Gluing the twisted wires in
17 replies to this topic
Posted 15 January 2008 - 07:03 AM
I make 2 mm (0.0787”) holes in basswood cranks and use 0.8 mm (0.0315”) wire for the twisted eyes. I use epoxy putty, 2 parts, to glue the wires in. After kneading it completely, I roll a small piece between my fingers, until I obtain a smaller diameter than the wood hole, introduce it into the hole, as much as I can, then I use a piece of steel wire with the diameter of 1.9 mm to press this putty to the end of the hole. I repeat this operation until the hole is (almost) full with epoxy putty. Then, using small pliers, I screw the wire into the hole. Some of the putty would squeeze out of the hole, letting you know that the putty is well pressed on the wire as well as on the wood.
After cure, I think you get yourself the best, the strongest glued wire eyes on a crankbait. I am sure that Arnold Swarzenegger would not be able to pull such wires out. For the belly hanger I use shorter twisted wires, (sometimes as short as 10 mm = 0.3937”) since the belly hanger stays at almost 90 degrees angle to the tow point.
The only problem about this system is that it is labour intensive. You have to work a lot to glue the hangers this way. Also, the price here for the putty is rather high.
Up to now, I was afraid to use epoxy to glue the wires in, because I could not find a way to fill the whole hole with epoxy, prior to pressing the wires into the holes. I think that just putting some epoxy on the wire and then pressing the wire into the hole would not be enough to get the best gluing force.
My question is the following: is there a way to take the air out of the hole, and replace it with epoxy? I don’t think that syringes would be good for the job. Besides, they are expensive. What methods do you use? How strong can you glue your twisted wires using epoxy? How short can they be? I do not use screw eyes.
Funny thing is that muskies or sharks are not available here, so I would not need the wires to be strongly glued in, but that’s just me.
Posted 15 January 2008 - 07:20 AM
The way I do it may not be the correct way but it defintely works. After drilling a hole slightly larger than the twisted wire I mix some Devcon either 5 minute or 2 ton and coat the wire then push it into the hole. I recoat a time or two more and repeat the process until I have excess pushing out of the hole. Then wipe off excess and square up eyelet.
As far as belly hanger my ballast weight is integrated into it and I use the same process.
My partner and I are fairly big guys and with a pair of vice grips attached to each end and us twisting and pulling we never had one pull out.
The largest fish to date on one of my cranks has been a 6.4 lb. smallie along with several 5-6 lb. largemouths and not a problem yet.
Hope this sheds a little light on one way to do it.
Posted 15 January 2008 - 08:39 AM
The way that Hoodady is doing it seems to work fine with balsa or or any of the harder woods. Just keep the hole near the size of the twist you will be using.
Give it a test with the shorter wire and see if it holds for you. Prior to through wiring balsa, I used this method with twisted wires just a little over a half inch in the belly of basswood and it was very strong.
Posted 15 January 2008 - 09:00 AM
Let me give it a go:
Firs I build screw eyes from the wire using a nail and a drill press , after that I drill a hole half long then the screw eye and fill it with epoxy. I screw the eye into the hole so for half of the way it will enter into the epoxy filled hole and for the other half it will screw into the wood carrying some of the epoxy along with it, and as hoodaddy said I recoat one or two times. After the paint job, when I topcoat I let some of the topcoat to stay on the eye and cut it down after it's cured with an X-acto knife.
Posted 15 January 2008 - 11:34 AM
I use a trick from work. When we epoxy set all thread for hold downs in concrete, we turn the bolt counter clockwise, as though we were unscrewing it, as we force it into the hole that's already filled with epoxy. That way, we avoid the possibility of the screw threads pulling the epoxy back out of the hole as it's pushed in, and kind of forces the epoxy down and into the hole.
I use the same method with twist wired, using 5 minute epoxy. I mix the epoxy, coat the wire, push the wire all the way into the hole, unscrew it back out, re coat it, and screw it back in, but in a rotation opposite to the way it's twisted, so it forces the epoxy down. I typically have a decent amount of squeeze out afterward, which I smooth out with a flat screwdriver dipped in alcohol. If I don't have squeeze out, I immediately pull the wire out and re coat it and do it again.
A tip. Don't try to do too many at once with 5 minute epoxy. If you have more than one lure to do, use 30 minute epoxy. More working time.
Posted 15 January 2008 - 01:24 PM
Small disposable surenges work great for filling the holes with epoxy
Posted 15 January 2008 - 02:16 PM
Mark. Another great contribution.
I told you Archimedes was a lure designer.
Posted 15 January 2008 - 05:02 PM
Pikeman and Rofish
How I twist mine is I made me an "L" shaped wire about the diameter of the hole for my eyelet and chuck it up in a 12V cordless drill, bend my wire into a tight "U" shape with the ends touching. I clamp a vise grip onto these and put the "L" into the "U" and pull the trigger until I have a twisted eyelet. Then I cut to legnth and Voila .......done.
It sounds a whole lot more confusing than to do it. You can have one done in seconds.
Before I neglect it the one leg of the "L" is a lot shorter than the other....but you would have known that I'm sure.
Posted 15 January 2008 - 05:18 PM
now this is twisted , I do it opposite , I use a nail instead of the "L" shape wire , I put the touching ends of the "U" into the drill , and the nail into the "U" curve , the nail is vise clamped on second thought , your method is better cause sometimes I have troubles putting the touching ends of the wire into the drill
Posted 15 January 2008 - 07:36 PM
I twist mine the same way you do except that I chuck a cup hanger to put the loop over...same concept and it does take 2 seconds....maybe.
Rofish, as far as gluing in the wire, I drill a hole in the bait just slightly bigger than the twisted wire. I then take 5 minute epoxy and use a piece of wire smaller than the hole and pack the epoxy in the hole and screw the twisted wire in, wipe off the excess. I have never had one come out in hundreds of baits.....quick and easy.
Posted 17 January 2008 - 02:12 AM
I am amazed at such many ideas about how to glue the twisted wires using epoxy. Some of them, I was already thinking of, but I never tried them, because I needed some kind of assurance. Now I can try even more ways to do it, knowing that each of them would work. Maybe others would also benefit from this thread.
Posted 17 January 2008 - 06:51 PM
How do you guys do your swimbaits with the pin hinge? I was thinking of glueing the pin in before painting so that I could hid the hole with wood filler then paint. And after painting wrap the wire around the pin and twist, then glue the twisted wire in the other half and adjust to right hight so the joint works correctly.
Posted 17 January 2008 - 07:44 PM
I leave the pin loose, with a small 90 degree bend for a handle, and paint the lure assembled, Then I take it apart, coat the inner faces of the segments with 5 min epoxy, and use a piece of wire to re drill/open the hinge pin holes. I then reassemble with the pins pushed down so the bend lays tight against the back and is just even with the bottom, or a smidge short, put it on my wheel, and topcoat. The small bent section of pin is so, if I ever have to take it apart, I can just dig the pin out of the topcoat and pull it out.
I think it's really important to have everything epoxied in before I paint, so I can adjust the hinge action if I need to. But I don't glue the pins in until the end with the top coat.
I check to make sure that the segments don't touch when I'm top coating, so they don't get epoxied together. I use scotch tape on the inside faces of the segments to keep them from getting stuck. The tape peels off the topcoat, and the wheel turns them horizontally, so there isn't a lot of drip and over run into the joints.
Posted 18 January 2008 - 10:31 AM
From reading your post it sounds like you use the cotter pin method. So your saying that you do glue the hinge screweye in after you topcoat? It sounded like from your post that you don't seal around the pin anywhere but the top and bottom. How do you seal the pin in the horizontal slot hinge area?
Posted 18 January 2008 - 12:33 PM
Actually, I have used twist wires so far. I only glue/seal the hinge pin with the epoxy clear coat. If that doesn't seal the hinge holes at the top and bottom, I've done something wrong. And I think that when I seal the hinge faces with the 5 minute epoxy, the epoxy seals the inside holes. Then, when I "redrill" with a piece of hinge wire to open them again, it's a tight enough fit that not much water can get in there. I'm not making lures for sale, just for myself and friends, and, so far, there have been no problems. In the past, I've used crazy glue to seal the hinge holes before I do the 5 minute epoxy, because it penetrates into the small hinge holes, but doesn't close them. That gives me an added layer of protection.
If I were making these for sale, I'd probably have to come up to a way to coat the entire hinge pin hole with waterproofing, like a penetrating sealer, before I assembled.
As it is, I haven't had any problems. So far, so good.
Posted 18 January 2008 - 12:35 PM
And the reason I haven't use cotter pins so far is I don't have a source for long enough shanked, corrosion proof cotter pins. I've got 1", but that's not long enough to make me comfortable for hinges, and the ones I have aren't corrosion proof.
I'd love to find some 1 1/2" cotter pins of stainless steel, but haven't so far.
Posted 20 January 2008 - 12:47 AM
If you go down to your local boat dealer/repairer, he will have s/s cotter pins, they use them on the outboard prop nut- He may not have the size but he would be able to get you the supplier.
I have only made 2 hinged baits, so I am no expert, but I have been using 2 x lengths of plastic coated, stainless/ s leader cable, it's very fine and rated to about 25lb. Just cut a short piece , clamp a ferrule on each end, poke it in the holes and D2T it (use a spacer) it seems to work O.K, and hasn't snapped yet. pete