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swimbait w/out the swim
63 replies to this topic
Posted 01 March 2008 - 05:03 PM
Yep same shopping center plenty of stuff in the fly tying isle. There was a fly shop also in downtown Lafayette but I can't remember what street it was on or if it is still opened. I don't remember seeing it lately.
Posted 01 March 2008 - 05:21 PM
Its Alive!!! Here is the rundown on swimbait tests.
1st tested as is... very little movement.
2nd added silly puddy to the lower tail and started getting some movement.
3rd added more silly puddy, just to the ventral side of the tail... more movement but still pretty lame.
4th added silly puddy to beef up forehead and had no significant changes (still had puddy on tail).
5th removed dorsal and anal fins and left tail beefed up w/ puddy. Lots of movement and achieved swimming action!
6th removed puddy from tail (no dorsal or ventral fins) Eureka! I think my new tackle box companion and I have some tournament business to attend to in the upcoming season:yes:
The ventral area did seem to lack vortex. However, it actually deadened the action w/out the fins in comparison to trail 6. So it seems that everyone was right depending on the trial.
Luckily, I didn't destroy the bait while removing the fins. The bait needed 1 more clear coating anyways (reason y the wires are sticking out everywhere). So here's my game plan. I'm gonna roll down to Sportsman's Warehouse, get some microfiber, and see what I can do.
Any news as to whether microfiber will lessen my action? When I acquire my supplies and refurbish the bait I'll add some pics and hopefully a swimming video. Thank you all for your professional wisdom!
Posted 01 March 2008 - 06:58 PM
Fly shop that was in downtown lafayette closed unfortunately. Sportsman's has a decent selection of fishing stuff, best in town anyways. You can get some stuff at Dick's at the mall that they don't have at Sportsman's. Fishing section at wal-mart is only so-so (I don't shop at Wal-Mart anyways), K-Mart's is even worse. If you know of any other places, I would love to hear about it. BTW, congrats on getting that bait working A-Mac.
Posted 01 March 2008 - 10:48 PM
Glad to here you got the bait worked out. Always great to figure out a lures problems.
As far as other tackle stores in Lafayette/West Lafayette it is slim. All you major retailers are poor at best. Used to be a guy on Kossuth that had a tackle store but I would imagine it went under judging by the few times I went in. ArrowsIII and Tackle Too has some tackle but I wasn't too impressed and at one time Walker's carried a very, very limited supply but that was when they were on Earl and I don't recall seeing anything at the "new" place.
Posted 02 March 2008 - 05:18 AM
A-mac, nice too hear you got the bait running and thanks for your feed back of the tests.
Posted 02 March 2008 - 02:42 PM
AWESOME JOB MAN! its always a great feeling when u've saved one from the fire pit
thank u for sharing your findings with the puddy and whatnot. i'm still doubtful regarding the necessity of ventral vortexes though (your test confirmed this)... maybe someone should further investigate this whole phenomena. i was always under the assumption that much of swimbait movement was created through lateral displacement, not vertical.
Posted 02 March 2008 - 02:49 PM
I love it when you talk dirty. )
Seriously, I thought the water passing down the sides of the lure are what affected the swimming action.
Funny, but in my limited experience, a flat sided crank with a lip has a tighter wiggle, but a flat sided swim bait has more wiggle. In fact, my rounder profile baits don't swim. The work only as twitch baits.
And baits that are taller tend to roll when you burn them.
And I don't know why any of these lures do what they do, but they do it.
Geez, I wish I were smarter.
Posted 02 March 2008 - 05:04 PM
As for adding microfiber fins. What I use mostly now is synthetic tapered paintbrush bristles instead of actual fly tying microfibetts. This is mostly due to the cost of the fibetts and the fact that my lures are fairly large.
What I do is use a dremel cutting wheel to make the slots where the fins will go. Then I use green masking tape and mask up around the slots so I won't get epoxy every where when adding the fins.
The tricky part is when you are trying to get the trimmed up fibers into the slot without getting them everywhere other than in the slot! I use surgical locking hemostats now and they have been a big help for holding the clump of fibers.
I believe that John Hopkins uses tape to keep the fibers together but how exactly he does it I'm not sure. Perhaps he'll comment on that himself.
Good luck with the bait and well done so far!
Posted 02 March 2008 - 05:52 PM
Actually, place on Kossuth was still open last time I checked but they don't have much. ArrowsIII tackle selection isn't worth the drive to get there, and Walker's (Tippecanoe County Sport Shop now) doesn't have any tackle last time I checked.
A-Mac, you might check the place on Kossuth (near 18th I think, and I think its called Abbott's Outdoors) though because I think they cater more towards fly fishing anyways, so they might have what you need.
Posted 03 March 2008 - 09:28 AM
Congrats A-Mac. Glad you got bait swimming. Keep up the good work.
Posted 03 March 2008 - 09:41 AM
Nice job A-mac!! This has been a great thread hope it doesn't die out now
Posted 05 March 2008 - 05:31 PM
I agree, I learned alot from this thread. I have built swimbaits that work great and many more that don't work at all. I will add though, that my experience has been like some others here in that the lures swim best when most if not all of the lead is in the head of the lure.
Posted 05 March 2008 - 05:46 PM
Hey SNAX, the best way I found to use paint brush bristles is: (1) get two sheets of wax paper (2) apply a thin line of glue or epoxy (3) put the ends of the bristles on the glue (4) put epoxy/glue in a line on other piece of wax paper (5) sandwich the bristles b/w the two sheets and wait for it to dry.
The glue/epoxy peel right off the wax paper leaving you with a bristle mohawk that you can trim to length.
Posted 06 March 2008 - 08:33 AM
got the fins on. ran into some devcon problems... its been 2 days and its still tacky... i don't want it thicker (coating) than I have too. Can I still coat the bait w/ a 3rd coat over the still tacky finish? Can/should I thin devcon to make a thinner coat since this is the 3rd?
I got the new fins on. Microfiber is da shiznit. Looks pretty cool. I'll post pics once i figure out how to save this bait... once again...
bdhaeh, that sounds like a good idea for the fins, as well as taping them off before coating (snax). lessons learned.
Posted 06 March 2008 - 08:45 AM
Great idea with the wax paper. Funny thing is that I have been using wax paper lately but not quite as you described. I was trying to use tape pressed against the fibers which were laying on the wax paper. Your idea sounds much better and I'll have to give it a try.
Posted 07 March 2008 - 08:31 AM
I noticed also during testing that Cedar took much less forward motion to start swimming compared to denser wood. I remember your input on wood types for gliders back when I started. With regards to the swimbaits being weighted mostly towards the head heres my take on it.
I think it's probably got something to do with gravity and the friction on the joints when extra weight is added to all the body sections. This of course is only true of swimbaits with a physical "hinge". John Hopkins has wisely eliminated all gravity induced friction by using a Kevlar strand. Brilliant! His baits move absolutely fluidly with very little forward momentum.
Posted 07 March 2008 - 05:29 PM
That makes sense, more weight would definitely put more pressure on the hinges. However, I can weight the head of the lure like a rock and the first joint works fine. It may be that the more weight in the back of the lures just makes them a bit harder to move which reduces action.
Posted 08 March 2008 - 12:03 AM
How much swim do you want ? can you twitch it and get any movement ? Adding weight to the middle area should get you some movement. I also agree going to soft plastic or rubber. A bass will try to swallow it head first, if it feels the hard fins it will try to spit it immeadiatly, they are afraid of choking on it, also bluegills that get ambushed are usually stationary so a stop start with long pauses work well also.
Posted 08 March 2008 - 11:42 AM
For me, the weight placement has to do with how the lure sinks when paused. I want it to sink horizontal, or with a slight head down, circling action, instead of diving head first.