Thinning Water Based Acrylics
41 replies to this topic
Posted 17 November 2008 - 06:08 AM
That's probably something different. More than likely flakes that aren't orienting correctly. Most of the time if it curdles(kicked out in paint terms), you can't even get it to shoot through a gun.
Posted 17 November 2008 - 10:44 AM
Just curious if this 'glycol ether' is available on a retail basis and where?
Posted 17 November 2008 - 12:54 PM
A word of caution when making your home brewed reducers. Some of the stuff you are using can damage the airbrush itself. Avoid anything with ammonia as it will corrode the coating on your airbrush.
Mark Poulson, you mentioned getting a curdling when you first apply your Auto Air aluminum. All Auto Air Colors require a very light tack coat and full coverage should only occur by the 3rd light coat. If you are getting full coverage in less than 3 coats you are spraying it on too heavy. I'm not a rep for Auto Air officially but I am one of the lucky few who tests their new products and provide useful feedback.
If you haven't yet tried their new line of waterborne (not water based) "Wicked Colors" paints I highly recommend them. Excellent sprayability and adhesion.
Posted 17 November 2008 - 01:00 PM
Thanks for the tip. Obviously, I was putting in on too thick. I'll try the tack coat, light coat build method.
Where can we see the new colors?
Posted 17 November 2008 - 01:06 PM
I like the Lexan Sheet test........interesting.
I generally don't thin my Createx paints because they spray great right out of the bottle. If I need a smoother look from the paint I simply turn up the air pressure. The other reason I don't like to thin paints is because it takes me longer to get the color I want...less pigment means more coats. This is particularly a problem when using white paint.
I do use Windex to clean the brush periodically and will also use it if I am spraying cheap Wal-Mart paints that tend to clog the brush.
Edited by RiverMan, 17 November 2008 - 01:09 PM.
Posted 17 November 2008 - 01:07 PM
Mark, Shoot an email to Craig Kennedy at Auto Air Colors. firstname.lastname@example.org and request the 2008 brochure. Also ask for any literature on the new Wicked Colors. He's the guy that answers most of the customer questions. Great guy and knows his stuff.
Tell him I sent ya!
Posted 17 November 2008 - 06:20 PM
I've seen it occasionally at hardware stores, and auto paint retailers usually carry it. The proper name is ethylene glycol monobutyl ether, but may be marketed as EB solvent.
That being said, I still wouldn't try a home brew with it. There's still the Ph issue. Factory thinners usually have an amine in there to boost the Ph to match that of the paint. Without it, there's still a chance to shock the paint. Best thing to do is use the manufactures thinner, unless they specifically state that it can be thinned with straight water. Some cheap art acrylics can be thinned with water only. Most high performance acrylics cannot. As I posed in the other thread: if you are using Windex and there's no problems, then keep at it. Just keep what I posted in mind if you ever use it with a different paint, or even color, and have a problem that you can't explain.
Edited by Downriver Tackle, 17 November 2008 - 07:01 PM.
Posted 18 November 2008 - 09:41 AM
Thanks, for the additional update. I mostly use Createx and I actually use their thinners, tranparent base, and extenders. About the only time I use Windex is for a few Hobby paint colors that well, you just can't create their color from the Createx paints pigments. And I usually add a drop of transparent base to the thinned paint to help with the adhesion.
Posted 20 November 2008 - 08:48 PM
O.K. guys now I'm very confused. I use lacquer based paint, and am considering water-based. I am a little concerned about using Windex since someone posted don't use anything with ammonia. All the windex I am finding has ammonia, except for the vinegar formula, will this do the job? Or should I just mix a few drops of dishwashing liquid in a pint of water?
Posted 20 November 2008 - 09:23 PM
I just use tap water... Maybe I should start using bottled water.LMAO The fish don't care if I'm a chemist..
Posted 20 November 2008 - 10:57 PM
I can't personally tell anyone to use or not use Windex but I can tell you what I have been told face to face by a Western Canadian Rep for Iwata. I met him at an airbrushing course in Calgary & asked him about using Windex. He rolled his eyes & said "Yes please, use as much Windex as you can...that way we can keep selling you more airbrushes!" He said that the production mediums may seem expensive but compared to buying a new brush because your old one has been pitted & chewed-up by ammonia based products, it's not worth cheaping out.
Posted 21 November 2008 - 12:02 AM
Guys you are making this far more difficult than it needs to be. Although there are a few really artistic types that may be working with fine details, the majority of us do not need to thin the paints at all. I paint hundreds of lures each year and never thin my paints in the least. I set my air brush pressure at 45 PSI, use only createx paints (not auto air), and start painting. There is nothing you can't do with this set up. I clean between every color with hot water and every so often I pull the needle and spray hot water through the brush. After every use I clean the needle and cone on the front of the brush and have done this for a long time with zero problems. I am using a gravity feed Iwata.
Edited by RiverMan, 21 November 2008 - 12:06 AM.
Posted 21 November 2008 - 07:54 AM
There are generic versions that do not have the amonia, and that do have the surfractants... you may want to check for them. I have been using one from Harris Teeter that seems to be friendly for the craft paints. But I also add a bit of translucent base medium back in to the thin mix to aid in adhesion.
Posted 21 November 2008 - 07:56 AM
Outstanding gill work! Teach me how you do it master!
Posted 21 November 2008 - 07:36 PM
Vinegar is acid. Probably much worse.
Posted 21 November 2008 - 07:37 PM
Gator, you won't believe how easy it is to do those gill lines when I tell you.
I use a plastic dixie cup (not paper) and I hold the cup in my left hand and squeeze it together to make the opercle more tight or stretched out......whatever I might want. By using a flexible cup you can make any shape opercle line you want to. The first line I airbrush a little heavier then move the cup and go along the edge a bit lighter for the second and third lines. Easy huh?
Edited by RiverMan, 21 November 2008 - 07:38 PM.
Posted 21 November 2008 - 07:45 PM
I use the Auto Air 4011 reducer with Auto Air and Createx paints and it works beautifully. It also contains a tiny amount of glycerin which helps prevent tip dry. Here is a a direct quote from Auto Air Colors taken from a top airbrushing forum on the subject...
Hello Everyone. The use of glycerine is a timely topic. We recently included glycerine in our Auto Air Colors formulation this past month. It reduces tip-dry substantially. Adding too much glycerine does risk a loss of adhesion and an increase in curing times. We are adding about 1/10th of a percent of glycerine to the total volume of paint. Avoid adding too much glycerine to any cocktailed mixtures. In regard to newer formulas, yes - we've made them this year and, in our opinion, the paint is working better than ever. We've formulated the 4200 Series Transparent Colors to atomize and spray well through smaller tip-sized airbrushes. All other color series have also received modification to their formulations. The tip-dry issue is one we've always worked on and the recent addition of glycerine makes a significant improvement. The newer formulas can be easily recognized as the bottles label's are white and black (except for the logo) and the color type is printed on the front of the label. Older labels had a colored swatch on the front of the label with the color type pre-printed in the colored swatch. Also, on the label's side where the color name, size and UPC code are printed vertically, there is a batch code. It is an alpha-numeric sequence printed horizontally. If the batch code doesn't contain a "#" sign in it, it is the newer formula. Formula batch codes from 2005 & 2006 contained a # in them which designates they're made with a binder we no longer use. In regard to the latest formulas which have glycerine, that is identified by the batch code as well. As of this morning, our paint lab has yet to publish which codes are the glycerine formulas but, due to this thread, those batch codes will be available by today's end. If anyone would like a list of the colors and batch codes we've added glycerine to, please contact us. This information will be made available on the new Auto Air website which is scheduled to go live by the end of the month. In addition, we also have a new 24-page full color catalog which arrived this week. If anyone wishes for a free copy, please contact us. We can be reached at 1.800.509.6563 ext.1 or email@example.com. Thank you in advanced for allowing us to add the marketing plug along with our response.
Auto Air Colors
Posted 21 November 2008 - 07:48 PM
I suppose I fit into the "artistic types" category!
Seriously though, I do suggest reducing the opaques for better sprayability as they can get grainy when using lower air pressures. Remember, the lower air pressures make for less overspray and more precise control.
Edited by Snax, 21 November 2008 - 07:50 PM.
Posted 22 November 2008 - 08:37 AM
Jed, your right! Some times you just have to get a good chuckle of how KISS really works. I used to watch my dad do wood work, cabinets, build air boats, swamp buggies, make custom tools like router bit shapes... and regardless sometimes it just takes the Ps. Practice, patience, and pain. The last one diminishes with the others.
But for sure I am going to give it a try. On the next bait I want to add more realistic gills for.
One way I was making repetitive shapes was to take the exacto knife, varying widths of blue painters tape, and using various sizes of small and large jars or whatever and I would trace the outline of the jar through mulitiple layers of tape while it was on the roll and then you could just peal one off and use it as you needed it. Works pretty well for making a Craw type pattern for crank baits and because of the curved cut it actually lays over the backs of the baits pretty well.
Thanks for the info.