Single vs Dual Weight Placement - Glide Lures
17 replies to this topic
Posted 11 March 2008 - 09:58 PM
Most of my experience is using a single hole for the lead placed at the "center of bouyancy" or the spot that I can hold the lure and sink it level to the horizon. I find it easier to achieve desired bouyancy while keeping the lure at the proper attitude.
I'm currently working on 4 plugs of the same design. Considering a dual weight placement on one of them to see what difference (if any) can be seen in the action.
Any experiences with this and if it is worth experimenting with a method that I am not familiar with?
Posted 11 March 2008 - 11:37 PM
I remember a talk about the x-axis on a lure. If all the weight is in one place the center of the axis the lure has a greater wobble. When the weight is at to ends it dampens the wobble being the axis is larger or longer if you will. That might make it glide better. I think it would be intresting to see if it makes a difference.
Posted 12 March 2008 - 12:03 AM
I'm not a glide bait expert, but I've been using dual weights, and the glide seems like it might be a little longer than when using a single weight-- as Kelly suggested above. Hard to tell without an exact side-by-side test, though.
I've also been installing one of those tiny, super-strong disc-shaped neodymium magnets about 1/2" behind the belly hook hangers. The magnet causes the hooks to stick flush to the bait's belly, and thus the bait has significantly less drag. The result is a bait that really zips and glides like it's on ball bearings. Very fluid and realistic movement.
You can find the tiny Nd magnets online. Browse Magnets by Shape - Disc
Hope this helps, good luck!
Posted 12 March 2008 - 12:56 AM
The only way you will know for sure is to experiment. Some woods are too light to allow for just one weight in the center and will thus require two or more weight locations. Try some with one weight, two weights, or even three or more. I have a book I have kept for years and it probably has 50 pages front and back of tests I have run on gliders. I find it necessary to test everything, even a small change in lure length may require a different weighting scenario if you want to find the best possible action. There are no shortcuts and not quick answers. Maybe 5 baits, weight them differently, and head to the pond.
Posted 12 March 2008 - 06:35 AM
Definitely the dual is better for glides. It gives them a beautiful sweep that cannot be match by a single wight center. I Do like the action a single weight axis gives to a diver. Its a very interesting flow
Posted 12 March 2008 - 08:49 AM
I personally feel that having lead in one, two, or more places does not inherently change the side to side action of a glide bait. I try to imagine how the balance of the lure is affected relative to the center of buoyancy. Kelly alluded to this talking about the X axis. The Z axis is important too. I am not concerned where the lead is end to end as long as the lure sinks level. I am more concerned with where the lead is top to bottom. I try to keep the lead up high in the body near the center so that it will pivot around the Z axis or wobble after the glide and while sinking.
There is an argument to be made that if a glider is weighted in one central point the ends will be lighter and pivot more easily around center. This is true in many applications, but I do not think it is a factor in water at the relatively slow speeds we are talking about. I think the drag on the lure as it passes through the water is a much greater force. Look at a Manta for instance. It is weighted in one point and has a long sweeping glide. The tail has a lot to do with this but the symmetrical body also allows it to glide gracefully. In this case I think the drag of the water on the lure has the most impact. Conversely a short flat sided lure like a magic maker or a Cobb’s crazy shad pivot easily around the Z axis giving the lure a quick side to side “walk the dog” action.
To answer your question I think it is easier to use a dual or multiple lead placement approach. The best part is when you are testing the lure it is very easy to remove lead with a drill from each end to fine tune the sink rate and keep it level.
Posted 12 March 2008 - 09:05 AM
Pardon a dumb question, but are they surface, or sub-surface floaters?
Posted 12 March 2008 - 06:04 PM
My personal opinion is that shape will have a far greater impact on the type of glide you get regardless of weight placement. As long as the glide bait sits level it will likely have the same glide weighted either way. Love for someone to test that theory and let us know if it's accurate.
Posted 12 March 2008 - 08:06 PM
I believe Snaxs is right.Shape has a lot to do with the baits glide. Most of the baits I do are gliders and shape plays a big role in how they work. A bait with a a sharp nose like a rattle trap has a great glide. Also if you turn the eye hook sideways your leader will slide back and forth in the eye after you sweep your bait and give you a tighter turn. Back to weighting your bait two or more placements is better in my opinion. Its so easy to misplace your weight and two even three weights will help you have a balanced controlled fall which is very important.
Posted 12 March 2008 - 10:10 PM
Just finished melting lead in two spots, then balancing the lure. Hopefully can get the first coat of epoxy on tomorrow night. I may field test the pre-coated lures side by side late this week or on the weekend. Will report the results in this thread.
The balance came out nice. Placement of the weight is lower on the lure which will make for a lower center of mass and I would think less belly roll but there was a nice shimmy on the fall when I did my float test so we will see!
After doing this there are some advantages that I can see with regards to fewer unknowns before sealing sealing the lure. I was able to tweak the balance a bit after melting the lead and also adjust the final bouyancy. Before I targeted neutral or slight positive bouyancy on the wood plug with attached hardware before drilling out the lead hole assuming some loss of bouyancy from the displaced wood for lead hole and also epoxy coats. Other advantage that I see is ability to make standard lead holes location and depths for a given bait profile, and you can drill it to get desired final results. So far so good. We will see...
Thanks for the info and replies. It is extremely helpful to tap the extensive experience and knowledge on this forum and I don't take it for granted!
Posted 13 March 2008 - 10:57 AM
If you predrill your lead holes, and then test weight with split shots pinched onto your trebles, you can get the weight pretty close before you pour. When you have it right, just melt the split shots and pour. Or measure out the same weight solder or lead wire, and pour. If your holes are too deep, you can pack them with wood and super glue before you pour.
Posted 13 March 2008 - 11:29 AM
Thanks for starting this thread. I am watching very closely because I have just made 4 single weight baits and have at this stage no idea whatsoever how they will perform. I have in the past made 2 singles and did not really appreciate any significant difference between those and the dual weight. I don't have a problem with wobble and see that as if anything a bonus. After all sick and dying fish act in very strange ways and these are prime pike targets, I have seen fish that are on their way out swimming upside down on the surface so I say 'wobble' bring it on .
Posted 13 March 2008 - 05:26 PM
hey yake , here is another quick tip. If you have digital scales at home take apeice of solder and some lead shot and match the weight of the solder against the weight of your hook and split ring. when you are dropping your bait in a bucket of water to test the balance, hook your solder through the eyes of your bait. It will save you time taking hooks on and off if you have to drill more holes. i watched a buddy of mine drill a bait with the hooks on .the bait slipped out of his hand the bait started flying around and six beers and a doctors visit later he was fine.
Posted 14 March 2008 - 07:09 AM
I test the crankbaits in a pot of water to see how much lead they need. I use treble hooks and split rings for testing, but I just hang the treble hooks and split rings upside down in the wire eyes.
Posted 14 March 2008 - 07:20 PM
Here they are. They will get an epoxy pre-coat this weekend then hopefully get a test run in the river before paint. Will report results when I get them.
Posted 14 March 2008 - 07:31 PM
I do that too. Must be my Eastern European ancestry!
Posted 15 March 2008 - 03:53 PM
AND THE RESULTS ARE...
Very little difference in action. Maybe a slightly wider glide with the dual weights but almost no difference at all. The dual weight lure ended up with a slightly higher sink rate which may be more of a factor in the difference in glide.