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Got a problem
17 replies to this topic
Posted 16 March 2008 - 07:25 AM
I went to the coast last week and took a bag full of lures (including a few of mine). The lures (template pictured below), I generally only troll, but decided to chuck a couple, so added some weight to the lower body. Problem is it casts like a butterfly, even with the weight. Distance is not a problem, just getting it to hit the water, rear first, is.
Do I add a few more grams to the rear end, which will make it float, with a bias towards the rear, or move all the current 4 grams to the rear? I feel either may significantly change the action. Any solutions/ideas?
I will be making a 'crash test dummy', so can try anything.
Thought I would ask, for my, and any one else who is interested, benefit. I forgot to add the lures are 80mm long (3 1/4"). Feel free to add to the picture, I have heaps.pete
Posted 16 March 2008 - 07:44 AM
I usually just play around with the weight until it works. Adding weight to the rear would probably work, although it might change the action.
Here's an alternative.
Your lure is maybe too small heightwise for this, but it's worth considering.
You could try hollowing out a weight path in your lures before you glue the halves together. Find the weight that works, find some round steel balls that match that weight, find a small plastic tube, like a straw, that is just large enough for the weights to roll in, and set the tube and weights, with the ends closed, in the lure body, ascending from the mid section to the tail. Putting a small permanent magnet at the front of the tube, just stong enough to pull the steel balls forward after the cast, would help if you don't have room for a steep enough ascending angle in your lure.
That's what a lot of the high prices Japanese lures do, although some use stainless cable and magnets, too.
Once you've come up with the right length tube and weighting, you should be able to have the weight move to the rear on the cast, and then fall more foward once you begin the retrieve.
Sounds like a lot of work, but it's how the fancy cranks handle the casting weight problem, especially in lighter jerk baits and cranks.
Besides, this method will give you something else to go crazy over. )
Posted 16 March 2008 - 08:33 AM
If i were you Pete i´d weight it on the axis of movement ,this will give you the desired castingweight and still give you the same action as an unweighted lure
Posted 16 March 2008 - 03:53 PM
Thanks Mark, I had completely forgotten this trick, as you say, you see it a lot in Jap lures, so I will give it a go. As you say space may be a problem. I have some lead shot and fine brass tube in 'The Shed', just have to find it.
Swede the cast weight is adequate, it's just that it is not leading with the back of the lure when casting, causing the trebles to tangle etc. Thank you both for your 'minds', and I will give Mark's idea a go, sound's like the solution, but will see what happens. pete
Posted 16 March 2008 - 04:47 PM
Looking at your template I would have thought you would not have had a problem. It may sound a little simplistic but what kind of reel do you use ? I always feather the cast when using either fixed spool or multiplier and never have a bait hit head first and I'm sure with my haphazard method of bait construction some of mine would very much like to but I wont let em .
Sorry but thats the best offering I can muster.
Posted 16 March 2008 - 09:40 PM
Phil - yes that worked, but I figured a lure with this length/width ratio, I should not need to, if I weighted it right, that is. As I said, I usually troll, so is not a problem, I normally don't even bother to add any weight (as with the one I sent). Anyway it's just another experiment on the way to 'Nirvana' I suppose. pete
Posted 16 March 2008 - 11:01 PM
I've gone through the same sort of design modifications a few times with lures intended for trolling.
The solution for me was make a few 'casting-specific' models. Move your COG rearward to 44-45mm, and even thought he lure is 80mm long, don't install the front hook hanger. Keep the same ballast weight. If having the option for two trebles is to much to forego, then don't install the front treble hook on your casting-specific models. Those modifications will immediately eliminate the hook tangling, and reposition the COG to be more "casting friendly", while allowing you to still troll with those lures.
Painting them with a distinctive pattern or stencilling "CS" on the lure's back makes them easy to identify at a glance, for when you need a casting-specific lure.
Hope this helps, good luck! Let us know how it goes.
Posted 16 March 2008 - 11:45 PM
Hey Pete, another thing you might consider is the lip. It appears to be set at a fairly steep angle on the diagram. Depending on its length, that would definitely cause the lure to cartwheel when casting.
Posted 17 March 2008 - 08:28 AM
Forgive me for being dense, but how would the lip cause the lure to cartwheel?
I thought the lip would act like the fletches on an arrow, and keep the head at the rear. Silly me.
I've found that how much let down (the amount of line from the rod tip to the lure) I have affects how a crank casts, and also how much whip I put into the cast.
I don't troll, so I can't speak to lures specifically made for trolling.
I learned here to "T" my trebles. Just curious, do you?
Posted 17 March 2008 - 12:50 PM
Mark, I think a better analogy is the rudder on a boat. On a crankbait, the airstream is hitting the flat side of the lip, not the edges of the fletching like on an arrow. And the lip is applying asymetrical force on the crankbait, not like the fletching distributed around the shaft of an arrow. The more the rudder is turned, or the steeper the lip angle on a crankbait, the more deflection force (aka tumbling force) is applied. Deep divers with large lips and very small lip angles (often zero angle) tend to cast best. Weight balance over the whole bait is also critical. If the lure is front heavy, it may fly OK on a perfect cast but the least little aerodynamic change will cause it to tumble. I built some chest weighted deep divers and found this out the hard way! Fortunately, my casting has developed to such perfection now that it really isn't a problem
Posted 17 March 2008 - 05:45 PM
Hey Hazmail...I don't craft lures. Heck, I just started painting them, BUT...
...How hard would it be to put a moving weight system inside of the plug. I'm thinking about alot of high end plastic plugs that have a shaft or tunnle, if you will, that allows a round weight to roll to the back end on the cast, but then rolls down to rest in a little hole on the retrieve. I thought about taking a round plug out of the bait and then drilling a hole the size of a drinking straw, to insert a drinking straw into; Going in through the bottom and taking a plug of your wood out at the end of the straw...giving a low spot for your weight to rest in while the straw acts as your tunnle? Who knows...may not work or may just not be worth the effort, but it's a thought. Hope I could help...
Posted 17 March 2008 - 08:39 PM
Hi all...this gonna be my first post after lurking for quite sometimes.....got this one from Lapala after tried searching here and there.....not yet tried swimming them yet....so dont know how the action....i just make the lip/bib replaceable so i can play around with the action....on floating test in the tub they float just fine....when the weight at the back,slightly trim by aft but still 1/2 of the bib in the water,so when pulled,the resistance is enuff to make the body incline forward and move the weight to the head.Still have to test them swim....
The 3 ball are tungsten....1 ball are steel...i magnet...
Posted 18 March 2008 - 05:19 AM
Wow!! I’m overwhelmed with possible solutions here. I like the challenge of the ‘rolling balls’ that Mark first mentioned and also the two others along the same line. Mark and Bob may be onto something with the lip, as in the lures I was casting I have reversed the lip to decrease the dive depth. When I think about it, the lure would tend to travel bottom first, because of the ballast, but the concave lip would grab the air and tend to try and flip it over against the counterweight. This may account for the instability, which I thought at the time, was a bit more than would be normal.
I think I will give the ball idea a go, I like the laminated / routed idea, of Rapalajoe / LaPala, looks more simple than tubes (on paper anyway), Joe that is some fine woodworking there too.
Looks like there is more than a few of us getting something out of this post, so I will have to try it out and with a bit of luck, will be able to, keep the lip, retain the weighting and solve the casting problem, that’s a win, win (on paper). But life and lures, are never so simple.
Thanks again guys. pete
Posted 18 March 2008 - 06:44 AM
Hope you don't mind a personal question.
How long does it take you, more or less, to shape a lure body and how long does it take you to do one of you amazing paint jobs?
Posted 18 March 2008 - 02:32 PM
Sorry Haz...I just read what Mark wrote and um, yea, I second that...I guess I should learn to read everyone's post before I go sticking my foot in my mouth.
Posted 18 March 2008 - 02:40 PM
Six Feet, no problem , it's all good info and thank you for the tip.
Mark - I don't think this is personal or unique, we all slave away and could never recover the time spent in $ terms. My sander is a bit 'blunt' at the moment, and it depends weather they are 'split body' or not, but, about 10 minutes to for a standard body with screw eyes or 15 for a split one.
As you would know painting is a different story - some recent prawn colors took about 1/2 hour because of all the colors, a lure with all the blob colors probably 1 hour, because you can not heat dry the paint. Standard 2 or 3 color ones take about 5-10 minutes, I spend more time washing out the brush than painting.
The one above with the inverted platypus lip is not paint, it s 'Mylar', and the few I have done, I do them in halves as I think it is easier, and you can get the film right up to the edge, with few creases, probably takes 15 minutes to glue and stretch the mylar, very fiddly. Thanks for the compliments on the paint, and as you would know, with some of your jointed lures, the hours just drift away.pete
Posted 19 March 2008 - 08:43 AM
For me, it's days.
Sounds like you have it down to a science. Good for you!