Question for the foilexperts
13 replies to this topic
Posted 07 April 2008 - 12:02 PM
Whoaaah, I just got 4 baits ruined
Finally I got the foilthing going very nicely, a problem occurs.
This is what I did:
- Making a bait
- Glueing mesh to both sides (with Elmer's Glue-all)
- Covering the mesh with adhesive foil overlapping to the back and belly
So far so good.
Then I started to coat the bait with one part resin (polyurethane) a few times to even out the foil etc. Everything looked perfect still, the bait was evened out and me was happy untill I woke up next morning to find that foil got off on both sides
The coating was still undamaged but both sides were plump.
So I cut off some coating and found that the mesh was still attached to the bait but the foil got off the mesh! I don't understand this because the foil is adhesive like h*ll. The foil has been on the baits, without problems, for several days 'till I started coating. Where the foil overlaps the mesh and is directly attached to bait there's no problem, only over sides with the mesh glued on.
Does anybody have any idea what caused this?
All input much appreciated since these baits took a lot of preparation and I liked them so much
Posted 07 April 2008 - 12:19 PM
You may have answered your question already. The explanation seems simple to me. The self adhesion foil has not enough gluing force.
Something similar happened to me, when using adhesive foil for the eyes. Using a clearcoat which I diluted with thinner, the eyes had the tendency to go off the lure, because the thinner was dissolving the glue of the self adhesion foil.
Don't use self adhesive foil anymore. Instead, use what you call contact glue (I think). The kind which you have to apply a thin layer on both parts which you have to glue together, wait a few minutes, then press the two parts together. I have recently found a similar glue in a rattle can. I am sure you can find many brands of such glue.
Posted 07 April 2008 - 12:35 PM
Thanks for your quick reply.
I still wonder why the foil has no problems outside the mesh. Could it be that the fine meshstructure takes away some of the foil's adhesion force?
I followed the same method as Tigger explains here:
Appling foil to your bait. - Ohio Game Fishing Community
Posted 07 April 2008 - 01:02 PM
I think you were getting it close to right, why not use a contact cement under the mesh and then the self adhesive foil tape with a two part epoxy top coat... I think the Elmer's Glue-all and one part resin came in contact under the foil and the resulting out-gassing bubbled and blew the hole in the lures. They looked like they were really coming along nicely until that point. I am sure a few of the experts will be along with the answer.
Posted 07 April 2008 - 01:59 PM
I forgot to say, but I am no expert in foiling. Still, I have some experience.
I think you are right on the spot with your previous post. When glued to the mesh, the adhesion foil has no strength at all. Try the contact cement. You will tell me more about.
Posted 07 April 2008 - 02:02 PM
Use a spray adhesive. I like the krylon brand. Can be found at hobby Lobby for $4 a can.
Posted 07 April 2008 - 02:48 PM
Thanks for all the kind replies so far guys.
I was kinda fed up with the foiling this morning, you guys know what a b*tch lurebuilding can be
Fortunately I was able to safe the baits. I stripped them all and sanded them back to smooth. There's some hope in me again
Posted 07 April 2008 - 02:53 PM
Like Spike-A-Pike, I think the solvent in your polyurethane caused the problem. I suggest trying a coat of Devcon Two Ton instead. It has no solvent and shouldn't lift the foil, plus it forms a hard durable coating that levels very well. I'd be concerned too about using Elmer's on the netting. If it was this fragile, it may delaminate from the lure during use regardless of what's on top of it. The contact cement used to glue down countertop laminates should fix that.
Posted 07 April 2008 - 03:38 PM
I would really like to work with Devcon 2Ton. Problem is that it is very hard to find here in Holland. The few shops that do sell it use ridicoulus prices.
Posted 08 April 2008 - 05:14 PM
If you use solvent based contact cement, be sure not to leave the lure in the sun too long. For formica counters, at least, that's a sure way to have the glue fail.
Posted 08 April 2008 - 09:24 PM
While it is always hard to troubleshoot problems like this via the net, I would bet my house that your foil's adhesive did not play well with the Elmers Glue-all.
I use an all-purpose spray adhesive (Duro brand) to secure the netting to the bait. When it dries, the foil will stick to the bait and it is NOT coming off.
The coating that you apply on the surface of the foil should have zero effect on the glue's bond beneath the foil, so I would eliminate the polyurethane as the culprit.
Change to a different adhesive glue for the netting and you should have no further problems.
Posted 09 April 2008 - 01:21 AM
when foiling with mesh i heat the foil up with a heat gun after i've applied it this softens the foil's adhesive so you can really get it between the mesh and improves the grip
Posted 09 April 2008 - 07:52 AM
My guess is the urethane's solvent got into the voids in the mesh, and reacted with the foil's glue. Oil/solvent based urethane is pretty potent stuff, and you may have made micro holes in the foil when you forced it down on the mesh that let the solvent get between the mesh and the foil.
Using epoxy instead of urethane as a top coat will probably solve your problem.
Do a small test on a piece of wood next time before you top coat. That's a lot of work to have to redo.
Posted 13 April 2008 - 11:02 PM
The solvent from the urethane can also be reacting with the mesh itself if it is plastic...........