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new "Banana" lure
115 replies to this topic
Posted 08 June 2008 - 01:20 PM
That lure looks great. Can't wait to see it finished, and hear about how it works.
I have to say, you must be a saint with the patience of Job to wait two weeks before finishing your lures!
I am so impatient, I cut them out and shape them in one day, finish the joints and install the hook hangers and line tie and seal them the next.
The third day, I weight them, install the ballast, and prime them. And the fourth day I paint them and top coat them.
I'm so impatient I went to D2T epoxy instead of Envirotex Lite, which I love, because I can topcoat the lures in the evening, and fish them the next morning.
I don't make lures all the time, but, when I do, I'm driven to finish NOW!
Posted 08 June 2008 - 08:00 PM
diemai, I love your new bait and cant wait to see the final finished product. I was thinking about your banana lure the other day and thought of making one myself. Ive seen jointed flatfish baits and thought about doing that maybe in a hinge joint what do you think?
Posted 08 June 2008 - 09:12 PM
The original Kwikfish lure came in a jointed version, so I don't see why it wouldn't work.
Posted 09 June 2008 - 03:13 AM
@ mark poulson
I take weeks and months of time , from cutting out until rigging hooks . First because of this mentioned preservation method on abachewood , second reason is , that I always make a batch of lures at one time , say between 6 and 20 wood blanks , before I start out painting them .
I much prefer carving different lureshapes rather than painting them(you can see this on my only average paint designs) , so I easily end up with so many blanks for painting , before I notice , that it is now high time to commence with it:wink: !
Also I only have a small , dusty basement workshop , before painting I must clear and brush it up a bit prior to painting , and I don't always feel like cleaning up:( !
Just give it a go , you can only win , either lots of fish caught or some experience about what went wrong:) !
Just joking , but I haven't yet made a jointed model , though I have a jointed "Flatfish" of plastic somewhere . This lure is about little more than 4" , maybe even 5" in length , and very , very light , doesn't look too sturdy to me !
I have also considered making a jointed version for a long period of time , but so far no satisfying idea came up to me .
I am just a bit concerned about the added weight on the tail of such lure , provided by the hardware of the joining hinge , since I strictly believe , that a buoyant rear section is essential for such a lure-type .
(which must not neccessarely be absolutely true !)
And a homemade wood lure can't be made as light as the commercial one of plastic that I have , at least not , if I want it to be sturdy and reliable !
But I am very sure , that somehow it must be possible , maybe making the front section of a more rigid , still buoyant kinda wood(so that the thin diving bill won't break) and the rear of balsawood , the lightest possible sort of wood(yet then it has to be wired through and carefully plated with epoxy to gain a hard surface) !
Just an idea in brief..............!
Good Luck , Dieter
Posted 22 June 2008 - 12:38 PM
Hi , everybody
Whilst my "SuperBug" version and my swimbait are still drying from their wood preservation treatment , I found some time today to proceed with my new "Banana" models:wink: .
I glued in the tow eyes and hookhanger screw eyes onto some of them .
You may know from my post in the hardbait gallery "line tie construction" , that the tow eye consists of a roughly "M"-shaped wire form , that is fit into a slot and groove into the thin lip of those lures and glued in with a 5 min. two-component glue .
Made some pics of that process whilst working on it today , once you get a hold on it , it's quite simple .
First glue in ONLY the shanks of the wire form , don't let glue flow through the eyelet slot at this stage , this is only for a first bond(check pic) .
After the glue has started to set , mask the slot at underside of lip with some tape , I use cable insulation tape , since it doesn't bind with the glue (textile or paper masking tape probably would !) .
Don't press the tape snugly into the groove , but try leaving a small "hump" over it , so that the glue would probably fill up the entire slot better .
Now fill some glue into the eyelet slot from the top of lip , push it in with a toothpick or a wire piece , in the best case it would then flow down to fill up the entire slot on the underside , a drop of glue should remain around the tow eye to be certain about total coverage of the glue(check pic) .
Avoid air bubbles !
When the glue has set a bit(about 10 min.) , the tape may be removed to check , wether the slot has been filled up with glue entirely , but most likely this would not be the case , so a third mixture of glue has to be prepared and the slot finally covered with it(check pic for the final looks of the two sides of the lip) .
After at least 24 hrs. curing time I would remove the excess glue with my "Dremel" , small files , sandpaper and a carpet knife to be flush with the lures outer contoures , full strength of it is achieved after 72 hrs.
As you might notice , I find it very handy to utilize an egg container box for this work operation , since I can press the lureblanks into the gaps of it to achieve a permanent horizontal position of the planes , where I apply the glue .
This way the glue won't flow away sideward , but cure to a nice drop , that provides best coverage of eyelet and slot .
Also through the years I have gathered all the mixing bins of that glue , so I am able to just always take a new one for another mixing process , this saves a lot of time , instead of always cleaning up the one presently used .
Dried glue can easily be scraped away from these bins and their mixing sticks with a knife !
Greetz , Dieter
Posted 23 June 2008 - 04:05 AM
I simply do not understand why you have to go through such a complicated way of gluing the wire to the wooden lip.
I see the reason why you have to put first a little glue on the wire, to keep it in place, and then continuing the gluing process. But to speed up things, I would simply use some superglue to make the wire stay in place. Superglue dries instantly, so it saves time for you.
Then, the problem with the tape. On one hand, you say that bubbles in the glue must be avoided. On the other hand, you say that if you press the glue from above, using a toothpick, it is most likely that the slot is not entirely filled up with glue. I think this is quite a logical result, since the air is trapped between the tape and wood, and since you press the glue from above, with a toothpick, and through the slots in the wood, I assume, the air has little chance to escape through the unique way out - the small slots, made for the 2 peaks of the "M" shaped wire to go through the wood.
I think there is a simpler way to glue the wire. After the wire is glued with a little glue in place (either superglue or your 2 component glue), you find a method to block out the 2 slots, so the glue would not be able to go through because of gravity (you put there small pieces of wood, or use a little of your 2 component glue the moment it starts to harden).
Then, you glue the wire in 2 steps, once from above, and then from the other side. If you glue the wire this way, you can avoid air bubbles, which have a natural tendancy to go upwards, through the glue.
Another method would be that you use a very soft wire, which you can form directly on the lip, and in this case you do not make slots, but just holes, a little biger than the wire, and so the glue could not go through the holes.
I have to try your idea with your egg box. Very clever one.
Recently I have used a similar squeeze tube glue, similar to yours, to glue in lips. It is a 10 min. epoxy, 2 components, transparent not clear, as I presume yours is. Don't know if it would be suitable to glue the twisted wires in. After cure, unlike most epoxies, it is still soft.
Posted 23 June 2008 - 07:49 AM
I can understand your concerns , but (to me) the glueing process is not as difficult and time-consuming , as it may seem to be !
It only takes about half-an-hour for four lures to be completed as shown on third picture(excluding screweyes) , since my glue starts to set quite fast , and you may already proceed with the next step , when its surface is still a little sticky , at this stage it won't flow anymore and stay in place !
For instance , when twisting in screweyes with that glue (I use pliers to hold them) , you won't do more than four at a time , rather more even three only .
For the fourth one the mixture would already have turned "jelly-like" , and you still need some time inbetween to wipe off excess around the eyes !
Sometimes I do fix the wire form in place with superglue before , but only if the slot and groove turned out to be too big , and the wire has too much loose play in it .
This way I avoid the toweye to possibly move into an improper position whilst the glue is curing .
But usually I don't like doing this too much , since the wire form never comes to sit snugly everywhere in the groove and into the bores at ends of groove , so this way described previously I can be sure , that the entire wire and groove are properly covered and filled with glue !
Superglue won't fill up every place as good as this glue shown , and if the wireform was fixed with superglue at first , the two-component glue would certainly not flow underneath it anymore to fill up every gap in the groove and bores !
Concerning airbubbles , these are not such a great problem , they even tend to occur more , when poking that wire piece or toothpick inside the slot for better pass of glue .
It's not like airbubbles sometimes occuring on clearcoats of lures , its rather more one single bigger bubble , that can be pinched open , when the glue is still fluid enough !
If the slot , where the eyelet passes through , is still big enough(most likely on larger lures) and has not been partly blocked with glue from the first step bonding the wire ends into the groove , the gravity of the fluid glue is often enough to fill up the entire slot , therefore I leave this "hump" on the tape , when masking the slot .
Poking in a toothpick only supports this flow .
And if not , I don't mind , its only a matter of minutes to apply a third mixture of glue to close the slot on the bellyside of lip .
But this way I am sure for myself , that I have created the most rigid bond possible , and since I make lures for my own pleasure and not to earn money with it , I really don't care about slower or faster proccessing that much , main thing is , that I am satisfied with what I am doing .
I don't quite understand , how you want to block the slots with pieces of wood , whilst applying glue:? ?
The glue would also bind this wood ! My plastic tape doesn't !
This glue , that I use , also does not cure to a rock-hard condition , but it has great strength .
But I lately found on a lure , made about 8 years ago , that it would turn yellowish after a long time !
Glad , that you like this "egg box rack" , I've been utilizing it for many years now .
Since there are different ones around , make sure to look for a box , that has extra deep cuppings on the underside between the single egg's compartments , these also hold many lureshapes in an upright position(f. e. for glueing in diving bills or screw eyes) !
Greetz , Dieter
Posted 23 June 2008 - 08:29 AM
Forgive an ignorant question. Obviously you've perfected you method, so it works for you.
But I can't help wondering why you wouldn't tack glue the wire in place, mask the line tie side, and glue from the back in one shot. From my uninformed point of view, this looks like it would be a heck of a lot simpler. Of course, I've never made a lure like yours, so I don't know all that's involved.
Posted 23 June 2008 - 09:22 AM
@ mark poulson
Off course I have considered to do it this way as well , maybe I have even already done it before , don't remember , though:? .
But I am simply scared , that after having fixed the shanks inside the bellyside groove with this two-component glue , masking the eyelet side might move the eyelet from its fit accidentally , when tape is pressed too hard sideward against wire eyelet , since I don't always wait too long for the glue to cure properly before making the next step .
And you can read in my previous reply to rofish , why I don't like using superglue for tacking the wireform too much .
This two-component glue only reaches a fraction of its full strength after , lets say 60 min. , and I already proceed after about 10 min. , than it just turned from a "jelly-like" to a firm , but yet sticky condition .
And I guess , I can't put any force on the bond at this stage .
The final strenght of that glue is achieved after 72 hrs. , after about 24 hrs. it has well over half of its strength .
I have already considered about trying a faster-setting glue , but than the processing time to achieve any fittings would surely be too short .
I hope , that I could make my reasons understandable , though surely not agreeable to everyone , but each one of us has his own preferred methods , but which neccessarely might not be the most practical ones to others:wink: !
Call this the freedom of the arts:lol: !
Greetz , Dieter
Posted 23 June 2008 - 09:30 AM
I figured you'd probably tried everything, and had good reasons for you method.
Different materials and designs require different methods, and it looks like you've found the method that works best for you lures.
I was just being nosey.
Posted 23 June 2008 - 09:41 AM
@ mark poulson
I really don't mind , this is what such forums are for !
People here might get a lot of ideas and input by the work of other fellow tinkerers (like I also do) , but many things about these they have to or want to adapt to their own purposes , possibilities and demands:yes: !
Posted 23 June 2008 - 03:35 PM
I think I have to explain what I was thinking of.
The superglue does not have to be used in large quantities, you just put a drop or less in let's say 3 or 4 places to bond the wire to the wood in the desired position, so as to be able to use the real glue afterwards without the possibility that the wire changes it's position when applying the 2 component glue.
I thought the process of forcing the glue to pass through the slot is tedious and the result is not the one you expect, since there is still air between the tape and the wood.
What I was thinking of was not to put a piece of wood in the slot when you glue the wire, but before that, so as the glue cannot go through the slot. But this depends on the size of the slot and the consistency of the glue. It may be the situation that you do not have to block the slot at all, you just put the glue into the groove, and then you reverse the lure and put the glue on the other side. This way you avoid using the tape and you also avoid air bubbles.
But as Mark Poulson said, you know best what is best for your lures.
Posted 23 June 2008 - 04:47 PM
I must admit , that I did not quite figure out , what you meant about that small piece of wood , now I do:wink: !
Compared to the time , I'd use to clear off all the excess glue again with router bits , files , a knife and finally sandpaper , any time-saving on the glueing process would not be that remarkable .
Mark's suggestion about masking the eyelet instead of the groove and apply the majority of glue from the belly-side would probably save a little time , if I think over it well again .
It's a little finacky and time consuming to cut free the eyelet from it's surrounding glue drop , so if I'd mask the eye , I had less cured glue to remove , but if not properly done , the freshly glued eye might move out of position .
Or an indention around the eye would show up by having pressed the tape into the slot too much , in that case I still would have to prepare a new mixture of glue and put a drop over the eye to fill up this indention and later work everything perfectly flush to outer body contoures .
I'd prefer to apply glue everywhere generously at it's time , after 24hrs. it has cured enough for the excess to be removed , and if I should find a bubble or uncovered spot at this stage , this would throw me back for a day , since I'd fill that spot up with glue and wait 24 hrs. to re-shape flush again !
So I take my time to do it properly at first step:wink: !
Greetings , Dieter
Edited by diemai, 23 June 2008 - 04:49 PM.
Posted 24 June 2008 - 01:14 AM
Started out on removing the excess glue on my lures , sorry , that some pics got out of focus , but I hope , they are still easy to follow the step-by-step working process .
The cutting with different "Dremel" router bits is fairly easy and reasonably fast to be done , make sure not to put too much pressure on it , since pretty fast you might cut blemishes into the wood body .
When getting closer to it , just let the router only slide over the glue .
Make sure to always hold the circumference of the bit parallel to the wood plane , also to avoid cutting into it .
Go as close as you dare down to the wood , the fine-shaping is afterwards done with knife and files and sandpaper(180 to 240 grit) !
Edited by diemai, 24 June 2008 - 01:39 AM.
Posted 24 June 2008 - 01:32 AM
Alright , here are some more pics showing the fine grade work to render all excess glue finally flush to the lure body .
Only use the knife to cut off glue against the wire eyelet , never onto the outer contoures of the lure , you'd surely cut inside !
The inside of the eye(lip plane) you'd furnish with a slim triangle ,-or square file , just work the glue down to lip level , glue remainders around the "root" of the wire eye are cut flush with the knife , always guiding it parallel to the lip plane against the wire .
Not much to say about the belly groove , just file smooth according to the belly contoure , finally sand over with 180 to 240 grit sandpaper .
The glue would smear into the files teeth after a certain time , rendering it blunt , I utilize that special file brush shown to clean them up again , but an ordinary steel bristled brush should do as well .
Before the first paintcoat clean all chips and dust away from the lure , I use a special cleaning brush for this .
Gonna proceed with this in the evening or tomorrow , only worked a bit early in the morning to shoot the pics , got one week off from work , going fishing today:) !
Greetz , Dieter
Posted 24 June 2008 - 02:54 AM
I thought I had a lot of patience when I make my lures, needing hours to fine shape, sand, making hardware, tuning, etc.
Now that I see you at work, I think I am a small child compared to you.
Posted 24 June 2008 - 10:29 AM
Hahaha:lol: , I have probably gathered so many lures , that I surely won't be able to fish them all for the rest of my lifetime (at least , that's what my wife says:mad:) !
So I don't have no hurry with building my lures , I want them to turn out the way , that I think is best .
Actually it is a well-suiting leisure time occupation for me , since I have to work in a shift system since 1992 .
The first 9 1/2 years I have made weekly changes of day ,- late ,-and nightshifts , now I only do day , -and lateshifts , but most likely lateshifts . My buddies take over the nightshifts for me , since they hate lateshifts and I can't find sleep during the day .
What I want to say is , that sitting in my workshop and making something , that I like , with my own hands , is giving me a kind of satisfaction , not only to live for going to work .
I have several times gone fishing before late ,- or even nightshifts , but it always turned out in dissapointment and frustration to have to leave the water at a given time , maybe even when fish just have started to strike well !
So I leave it now for weekends and vacations .
I usually really don't have to hurry with making lures , I enjoy making them !
But I must admit , that for some reason I do not bother for a state-of-the -art paint job , I'd rather create different and sometimes strange and unusual designs .
But I can tell you , that the described working processes are not that difficult and time-consuming .
The point is , that after some time making several similar lures you'd become rather professional in it , so you also get pretty fast to work them down(in my opinion of speed !)
Greetz , Dieter
Posted 24 June 2008 - 10:41 AM
Maybe jamming a wooden toothpick through the line tie would stablize it enough so it wouldn't move during a glue up from the backside. Tape, then toothpick, maybe some crazy glue at that point to help hold it and seal the hole, and then flip it and glue it.
I try to keep any cleaning of the line tie to a minimum, since any rough spots on the eye can lead to line abrasion and failure.
Posted 24 June 2008 - 10:54 AM
How about dipping the line tie in tool dip or wax before inserting in lure. Then you could peel it off after epoxy/paint without damaging the line tie?
Posted 24 June 2008 - 02:03 PM
@ mark poulson , @ clemmy ,
Just realized about your concerns on this glue-drop to be cleaned off the line tie with knife and file:o:huh: !
You are bass anglers , you tie on your lures straight to the line:wink: !
In Germany not too many fishermen do that , in fact the restrictions of most fishing clubs(a membership is almost essential to be fishing over here at all , since these hold many of the waters) and also local restrictions command the use of a wire leader , when lurefishing .
For deadbait either , off course !
So the lures would always be fixed with a snap onto this leader , not tied to the mainline directly !
Only some anglers fishing for zander(walleye) in our bigger rivers and trout anglers fishing smaller rivers and creeks , also so-called "put-and-take" trout ponds , tie on straight like you do , since pike are quite abundant in such waters , or lures are too light and subtle for a leader .
But even when sometimes not using a leader , I'd always put a Duo-Lock-Snap on my line , just for easier switching:wink: .
So I don't have to bother about blemishes and cuts on my tow eyes !
But thanks for your hints , anyway , especially this tool dip or wax thing I'll keep in mind , may utilize it for jointed lures one day .
So well , I have now cleared off all the excess glue from my five new "Banana" lures , only took a bit more than one hour(check pics) .
@ rofish , to me this is not too long:) !
But as I look closely on the third picture(sideview of all the five lips) I can clearly see , that you guys are just too right with your concerns !
Thank God , that for above mentioned reasons I do not have to bother about it:) !
Greetz , Dieter