new "Banana" lure
115 replies to this topic
Posted 03 September 2008 - 05:22 AM
Ok then I understood you right ;-) I didn't tried those flat tails so much like it is at the "Damler" but I can imagine the effect you speak of. My bananas got almost always a more round shaped cross section at the tail, so I don't have the real experience with the difference. But in the belly region I modeled the cross section very wide and oval in some lures. I think it enhances an agressive X-action, because drag is reduced by sliding to the sides.
Posted 03 September 2008 - 05:43 AM
At the beginning of my luremaking carreer I made some real srange looking lures , also with flat tails , many of them did not work .
So I learned it the hard way , but as I look at it from a present point of view , all of these disappointments back then have their benefits for me today .
I am of your opinion as well , that a flat center section enhances that "X"-action , since not as much sideward resistance of the lurebody against the water occurs .
greetz , Dieter
Posted 03 September 2008 - 07:26 AM
OK, I got your ideas, so thanks Germany.
But Diemai, why do you need a rather flat tail anyway, in your bananas, since you say that you have less chances to play with the action? So if a wider tail section (and not a taller than wider, as it goes for usual crankbaits) will make the lure flip over, then why do you need a wide tail section for?
Posted 03 September 2008 - 04:18 PM
yes those are true words...you just can learn from a failed lure. I built a lot of strange looking lures too... and not all were a success in their action ;-)
For example once I tried to build a jointed banana...this lure never worked very well at all.
There are things one has to try...and sometimes error.
Posted 03 September 2008 - 04:53 PM
There are lures around with flat tails , and these do not neccessarely make EVERY lure to flip over !
When writing these previous posts about flat tails , I was refering to the shape of Luretrekkers design exclusively !
A "Swimwhizz" , for example , has a flat tail portion , but does not flip over !
It does not have a curved body and also has a rather small diving bill , at a rather high angle in relation to lures center axis(pointing more downward , not forward) .
You need to understand , that there are so many features about different lureshapes(straight or curved) , lip sizes and angles , weight of lures and balance weights and a few more , that don't come to my mind right now .
All of these have an impact on the lures action and general performance , and in many cases one can not easily predict about them , so I just try it out , since I do not run any high point computer design program , that does everything for me !
And I don't need a flat tail on my "Bananas" , I only raised this subject to try to explain about the dynamics of such lures , since you have obviously asked for it !
Posted 03 September 2008 - 05:08 PM
Often cracked my brain about a jointed one as well , but never started out so far , I know , that its gonna be headache , possibly:? !
But I own two commercial jointed "Bananas" , one "Flatfish" and one minor quality no-name lure , that I bought on a fleamarket the other day for little money , rather more to study it than to fish with it .
That one's front section looks like a modern plastic "Lazy Ike" , the rather short rear section has a small , unsymetrical fin , looking quite similar to a shark's tail .
If I should still make a jointed one in future , I'd put it into this shape , I like this fin design !
Maybe , if the lure would be made large and buoyant enough , on a slow retrieve this fin would cause a nice wake on the surface ????
just dreamin' (or not?) , Dieter
Posted 04 September 2008 - 01:19 PM
This lure sounds interesting. Do you have a picture that you could mail me?
Dream or not...this is what makes lurebuilding interesting...having new ideas for new projects :-)
Posted 04 September 2008 - 03:20 PM
Hi , Manu , I'm gonna post the pics here in about 10 to 12 hours from now(if I could find the lures:huh:) , won't go down the basement anymore at night , just relaxing after lateshift !
until then , Dieter
Posted 05 September 2008 - 01:43 AM
Good morning , Manu ,
Sorry , but I could not find the jointed "Flatfish" (one day I surely will !) , but I guess your focus of interest is upon that other lure with the "shark's tail" , anyway .
Well , here it is , you can determine about its size by the background squared paper , each square is 1/5 " (5mm) .
The diving plane ahead of the tow eye is slightly cupped , may not be too visible on the pics !
Greetz , Dieter
Posted 05 September 2008 - 01:57 AM
Thanks a lot dieter! No problem with the other bait.
Wow the shape looks very similar to my bananas, except the joint. I have never seen this lure before. I like it.
The positioning of the joint for this kind of bait makes sense. The one that I built some years ago had the joint almost in the middle...but this obviously couldn't work
Posted 05 September 2008 - 02:21 AM
No , Manu , a centered joint wouldn't work , since the bait would only "fold" in the middle , thus all the "guidance" by the curved body through the water is gone .
That "Flatfish" I couldn't find , also ha a very short tail-section .
greetz , Dieter
Posted 05 September 2008 - 08:02 AM
Did you thru-wire the jointed lure?
I have a jointed flatfish in my garage somewhere. I'll try and find it today.
Posted 05 September 2008 - 11:04 AM
I think the jointed lure on the picture is not a custom built lure...it is from the fleamarket.
Please correct me if I'm wrong dieter.
Posted 05 September 2008 - 02:43 PM
@ mark poulson
Hi , Mark , Luretrekker is right , this jointed "Banana" I found on a fleamarket a couple of weeks ago .
At first I was hesitating to buy it for 2€ , due to its poor quality , but then I made up my mind to still get it , just to test and learn from it for own lure projects , even priced it down to 1,50€ !
It is of plastic , has very thin and short shanked screw eyes , the belly eye was even mounted absolutely off centered in its indention at the belly , so I glued it into proper place , also applied the eyes:yes: .
The tailsection has a center slot through its length , in which a wireform(like a paperclip , obviously) is set in loose , not glued .
This wireform seems to be the only thing reliable on that lure !
I intend to make a larger version of this lure one day , but I am not sure yet about a thru-wired lure .
Luretrekkers "Banana" version , that I sketched previously in here , I will make with an internal harness , since its tail and lip are a bit thin for screweyes probably , also one has to consider the woodgrain to crack up under tension on such a slim , curved lure , throughwire is just essential on that one , I believe !
greetz , Dieter
Posted 30 September 2008 - 02:08 PM
Diemai & Luretrekker,
I think you may consider yourselves as fully responsible for this thread going on ...
As I said, I am not familiar with such type of lures. But you made me wanting to have some. So this is what I came up with:
They are made of poplar, which is tough yet light wood. I needed such a wood, because I understood that such lures may be unstable, so I needed to add some weight. They are 101 mm long (4"), and I draw the shape freehand, then I made a template, out of metal sheet, as I do for all my crankbaits. (I do not behave as an engineer, as Diemai does).
I liked the ideea of Luretrekker about the hardware - to cut through the lip (head) part up to a certain point, but then I thought that if I continue with the wire all over the belly, up to the tail, it would be impossible for me to play with the placement of the weight. So I have chosen an intermediate solution for one of the lures. There is a short hole in the head of the lure, in which I glued the twisted wire end of the hardware, which then continues with 3 tow eyes, then goes underneath the lip and ends up in a single wire. There is a groove for the wire, all along it. After glueing the ends of the wire with 5 min epoxy, I used 2 part plumber's epoxy putty to fill in the groove. I have a very good quality putty, which is imported from Germany (brand name is Sun Fix). When using such putty, you have to make sure that the putty is well pressed into place. After cure, it sands nicely, better than epoxy.
To the other lure, I used 3 holes in which I placed 3 twisted wire tow eyes. It was very difficult to drill the holes at a sharp angle without a drill press, one hole was off center, but I managed to enlarge a little bit the hole, and when glueing it I put it in the right position (centered). As the surface of the lip was not smooth after using epoxy, I sanded it, then I used epoxy putty and sanded it again.
After sealing the lures, I tested them with the weight hanging from the belly, using electrical insulation tape:
In short, I could not use the top tow eye, because the lures would roll, and I was not extremely happy with the action in the case of the 2 other tow eyes (closer to the lip end). The lures would swing from one side to the other, more or less. I thought this way of testing the lures is not the best one, becase the tape and the flat side of the weight are significantly affecting the action. So I glued the weight with superglue:
This time the lures behave in a different way, to one of them I could even use the top tow eye, but they still have the swinging action from one side to the other. I think I will test some more locations for the lead (in the second way, using superglue), then I will put the weights in. I am sure that after this, the lures wil behave in a different action. And if I am not satisfied with it, I will try to add a small lip.
But Diemai & Luretrekker also made it possible for me to make this creature:
And you know what? Out of these 3 lures, this one has the closest action to a usual crankbait.
I think I will call this lure "Pterodactylus D&L", because Diemai and Luretrekker had a more important contribution than myself to the creation of this shape.
Speaking of shapes, it crossed my mind that I may try this:
You could make it slimmer/taller, with/without a head, etc, as you like. I think this shape has the advantade that you can place the weight at the lowest points of the lure. I wonder it this shape has been tried before?
Another idea came to my mind after seeing Luretrekker's "winner" (the lure which produced a nice pike for him). That lure has a scar on the nose, and I think it does not come from a pike, but rather from the encounter with rocks or gravel, or similar. I think I could make a protective cap for the nose, using clear plastic sheet, which you could wrap around the nose using heat. Just an idea.
So Diemai & Luretrekker, this is all your fault:angry:
Posted 30 September 2008 - 02:55 PM
I thnk you, Dieter, and Luretreker should form your own lure company, Frankenstein Lures.
Each lure could be named for some monster.
The newest design you just posted should be call, "Nessie", for the Loch Ness Monster.
You guys are the best.
Posted 01 October 2008 - 03:22 AM
always nice to see that I'm not the only ill guy that lets himself get influenced of some ideas to experiment with new lures ;-) ;-)
Nice lures you created...:yay:and indeed an honour for diemai and me to get mentioned in the name of your pterodaktylus lure :-)
Concerning the action...I would expect you to get a more heavy action with a body that wasn't that thin (horizontally) and therefore more oval in shape. (For the first two lures)
Once I either tried a lure with several lure eyes...it is difficult to built a lure that really works in all three positions.
I never tried the last "nessi" shape. Maybe we should try this one...I could not predict the action :-) who knows...maybe the second bow of the back would compensate some vortex??? I dont know.
Yes Frankenstein-Lures would be great...and indeed the right thing for banana style lures...This reminds me on one of my Frankenstein bananas where I built in light cables and a light source
Edited by Luretrekker, 01 October 2008 - 03:25 AM.
Posted 01 October 2008 - 06:01 AM
I think that your ideas may struck gold. "Frankenstein Lures" ? Now this may be a brand name that every fisherman would like to try. It is a far more interesting name than Rapala, for instance
That's another wonderful lure. I think you had to spend weeks, or even mounths, to build a lure with lights inside. I also had this idea, but I do not know if this is worth the effort. Would be fish crazy about such a lure at night time? I think not.
Thank you for your guidance in building such lures. Certainly, I will not stop testing such new lures for me, in case of a failure.
I have a question for you. I have noticed that to some of your bananas you do not use just a split ring to attach the treble hooks. You also use a swivel, so the distance between the body and the treble hook increases. Do you have a reason for that? I think that you have. By lowering the position of the treble hooks, you also lower the center of gravity, and thus you increase the stability of the lure. Am I right?
Posted 01 October 2008 - 09:13 AM
That has to be the ultimate night fishing lure, a work of both pure science and art. The Nautilus, from 20 Thousand Leagues.
I know it would be deadly in the salt around the kelp at night.
I bet it would also work for largemouth bass, especially the big girls, who hunt and feed at night.
How long did it take you to make it, and is it stable when you fish it?