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swimbait , very first attempt
183 replies to this topic
Posted 26 June 2008 - 12:30 AM
@ mark poulson
Certainly you are right , but we'd expected a far better performance of our team , also because of the way , that some players had been talking previously in TV interviews !
But I guess , such a "ballyhooing" is part of the game !
Also we German people are known to be always moaning and wailing about everything:) !
But thanks anyway , Dieter
Posted 26 June 2008 - 04:18 PM
F..ck! We lost to Spain... I will support Germany in the Finale!
Posted 26 June 2008 - 05:08 PM
Can't say , that the Russian team didn't deserve it to go home:yes: !
But the German team is also able to play like the Russians did today , no doubt:huh: !
But they might as well do as good as the Spanish acted today , you never know ?
Alright , today before the soccer match I applied a clearcoat onto my swimbait and the other lures of my actual batch .
Tomorrow , they'll have their first bath tube testing !
Until then , diemai
Posted 27 June 2008 - 07:15 AM
Hi , everybody ,
This morning I have determined about the weighting of my swimbait .
I usually do this in a waterbucket in my workshop by taping in-line sinkers and/or leadshot onto the lureblanks at desired(or better required)location .
But I only proceed jerkbaits(and now also swimbaits)this way , since they require a certain sink rate or swim level , if floating models .
Crankbaits I'd test straight in my bath tube , so I can check their action under various weighting options .
Off course I'd also test this swimbait for action with these weights still taped on , but usually I don't do this with jerkbaits , since I have enough experience with them(unless new prototypes) .
If the sinking behaviour in the bucket is fine , they'll work , that one I know:wink: !
Anyway , the lead , that I taped onto this lure , just lets it float up about level with its back slightly sticking out .
If I submerge it by hand , it would rise at about 1" in 1 1/2 to 2 seconds .
So , after I drill the holes to embed the weights and after the paint ,-and final topcoats it would loose some more buoancy and maybe sink at 4" a second , maybe little more ?
The piece of wire attached to the toweye resembles the wire leader , that I would use later when fishing with the lure for pike .
Using this "substitute weight" helps quite a bit , that your finished lure later won't hang too much head-down on your line & leader:wink: .
When lure has dried sufficiently , I'd just disassemble it and drill the weight holes at the determined locations , which I mark with a waterproof felt pen , before removing that plastic tape & weight !
I would swage the most likely round or oval weights a little flat , not to have to drill too deep into the lure , since often there are eyescrews mounted , that limit the depth of the weight holes .
For same space reasons I sometimes even have to swage the lead into a rectangular(or cubic) shape and thus have to furnish elongated lead-pouches with a small router bit on my drillpress with cross-slide table !
Finally I'd close the holes with my time-proven two-component glue and work them flush after curing with "Dremel" and file .
One final word :
When utilizing this "tape-on weight" method to determine the sinkrate , submerge and shake the lure a bit underwater to get rid of possible airbubbles under the loose tape portions , these otherwise might false your results:yes: !
The tape comes loose after some time and you'd have to re-new it , when having to tinker for a longer while:huh: !
Greetz , Dieter
Edited by diemai, 27 June 2008 - 07:21 AM.
Posted 27 June 2008 - 07:47 AM
Fingers crossed! I like your weight placement. Should swim great.
Posted 27 June 2008 - 07:55 AM
The tape technique you use can surely do the job it is meant for - determine the weight and placement of the ballast. But it may have a downside, as you mentioned - trapped air, which might alter tha data.
Instead of the tape, some use a needle (sewing needle or office pin) on which the lead is placed. You press the needle into the belly, and see the action of the lure in the bath tub. If not satisfied, you change the position of the needle.
But now I use a different technique. I have (and use) cylindrical lead, with the diameter of 4.5 mm, which I poor myself. Cut ou pieces of different lengths (and weights), see which one is the best for a certain lure, then I glue the lead cylinder to the belly. This way, I can test the lure at the neaby river. I take the superglue with me, and if not satisfied with the action, I can easily change the position of the lead. At this stage, the lure is sealed, including the lip slot, so I can also try several lips. I do this only for prototypes. But I choose the lip this way for every lure.
Posted 27 June 2008 - 10:07 AM
If taking care about that trapped air , it works pretty well for me , no way !
But I might not want to pierce holes into my lures with needles(only pike are allowed to do that with their teeth:lol:) , it probably won't work with thru-wired lures , since they have this slot in their centers , filled with glue and wire , guess , no needle could easily enter !
Your method about the cylindrical lead is better , since you can cut it to different lengths , this way it is far easier to alter the weight for fractions .
Sorry , can't write more now , my wife just got home , we'd be off fishing now !
Greetz , Dieter
Posted 27 June 2008 - 06:51 PM
Posted 27 June 2008 - 07:22 PM
OK , I have now tested that swimbait with the still taped-on weights in my bath tube , and , I am very happy........IT WORKS PERFECT !
It has that distinctive snake-like swimming pattern even on a slow pull , it looks great !
I am sorry , that I can't provide a video , but this(unfortunately out of focus)picture still clearly shows the sideward swing of the tail section:yay:.
Next step now would be to work in the weights into the lures belly .
greetz , Dieter
Posted 02 July 2008 - 02:20 AM
Finally I managed now to place the determined weights into the swimbait body .
It was a bit finacky , since I could not just drill the holes as deep , as I maybe wanted to , since the hinge screweyes locations hinder deep drilling .
So I had to go as shallow as possible with the weight holes , therefore make them quite large in diameter , thus swage the leadshot and sinker weights rather into a "disc" shape:wink: .
To use the space as good as possible , I employed some wood router bits to precisely cut these holes , with their bottoms plane .
Well , things worked out well , maybe not the easiest method , but works out fine for me , and I don't mind tinkering a bit !
Anyway , the weights are fixed now , and after curing I'd cut the glue plugs on the holes flush with my "Dremel" and files .
More details about my method of glueing in the weights in my thread "New Banana Lures"
Greetz , Dieter
Posted 02 July 2008 - 10:16 AM
I found that, by marking the hook hanger locations (for me cotter pins pushed through 1/8 oz egg sinkers) on the side of the lure before it's shaped, but after I've traced the shape on the side of the blank, I can raise the lower screw eye location enough to clear the hook hanger hole, and it doesn't seem to affect how the lure swims, or it's strength. I also make sure to have enough room in a section with just weights to clear the screw eyes, too.
For lower profile baits this may not be possible, but it works for me. And if my screw eye hole actually hits the top of the weight hole, I'm not worried because I set the weights in epoxy, filling the hole half way and then pushing the hook hanger in until the epoxy comes up through the hole the cotter pin is in, and overflows. I wipe off the excess with denatured alcohol, and it adds an additional sealer where ever it is spread over the lure.
Posted 02 July 2008 - 05:14 PM
@ mark poulson
Thanks about that hint , if I understood right , the hinges neccessarely must not be placed equally centered(from a sideview) , but may slide upward a bit to gain more space at the belly portion for weights:wink: .
I can imagine , that it won't alter the action significantly , so I'll have that in mind for future baits !
After glueing in your hookeyes with those 1/8 ounce sinkers attached , do your baits still sink at a horizontal level ? Or you add further balance weights ?
I don't really like glueing in weights in advance , I need to test everything in my waterbucket !
Also already had some weight holes touch up internally to screweye shafts , just like you I don't bother too much , since my glue fills it all up again !
Greetz , Dieter
Posted 02 July 2008 - 06:38 PM
I've done enough of my jointed lures to know that, especially with the poplar lures, I need at least 1/4 oz ballast, even for floaters, and always more. So I drill out additional ballast holes when I'm drilling out for every thing else, in the locations I would probably use, deep enough for either another 1/8 oz egg sinker, or two #5 split shots.
I drill all my holes and make my hinges slots, seal the wood, install the hook hangers, hinge pieces, and line tie with epoxy, install the treble hooks and split rings, and then I float test them in a 5 gallon bucket of water, half filled (so it's not so heavy).
If the lure leans, I add weight by pinching #5 split shot to the trebles, starting with alternate sides of both front and rear hooks, and adding additional weight as needed, again symmetrically, until the lure floats upright and as deep as I want it. Your tape method would probably insure even weighting.
In the case of floaters, I like to have about 1/2" of the lure's back out of the water during testing. I've found that, even with painting and two coats of epoxy, they will still float.
If I weight it so it float with the back barely awash, after paint and finish it will "suspend". In reality, it will sink very slowly.
If I want a slow sinker, I add enough so it just falls, and more if I want a fast sinker.
With the sinkers, I try to make sure that the lure will "stand" on it's trebles when it hits the bottom.
There is no way to be truly sure if they will stand up on the bottom, since the ballast weights, once installed in the body of the lure, move the center of gravity a little higher, but I've tested finished sinkers, and, so far, they seem to stand up well.
Another way to alter floatation is to change the hook and split ring size, but I like the biggest trebles I can get away with without fouling every cast (occasional fouling is unavoidable with a jointed lure that's flexible).
I've found that my "suspending" lures are weighted really well for a fast surface retrieve, my floaters are good to medium speeds, and then have a tendency to lean. The true sinkers seem heavy enough to stay upright at all speeds.
Again, the key is to keep the weight as low as possible.
Posted 03 July 2008 - 01:11 AM
@ mark poulson
I expected it to be your experience to enable you to process this way , that you kindly described here .
I once did the same with a bunch of six jerbaits , that were supposed to be weighted(with one single weight) to sink slowly , I have cut these lures out of teakwood kitchen boards .
To save me some work , I only tested two lures in my waterbucket , it happened to be , that a 10 grams sinker just fitted to achieve desired performance , didn't have to tinker about it more .
So I glued in those sinkers into all the lures , but after having finished and first tested them , I have found two of them still floating .
Off course this is a result of different wood densities , also of subtle differences in the blanks shape , but since I trust more on weighting each single lure the way I do .
When having to weight a sinking glider jerkbait , that most likely has two weights fore and aft , I'd most likely use roofing lead sheet .
I'd first cut out a rectangular strip , approx . 18mm X 200mm , kink it and hang it on the belly hook . Now I shorten it , until desired sink rate is achieved .
Then I straighten it to make up as a template to cut out a second strip .
Now I have to estimate , about how to divide that strip to most likely two
different lengths to let the lure sink at horizontal level .
The rear strip piece most likely turns out a little shorter .
In case , that it happens to cut one piece too short due to faulty estimation , I still have that second strip to start all over again.
I'd use my taping method again for testing .
The waste of lead I'd gather to cast sinkers or leadheads some day .
After desired performance is accomplished , I'd roll up the strips as tight as possible(rolled them up loosely for testing before)and use a hammer over the edge of a steelplate(or anvil)to swage these rolls even tighter to a cylindric shape .
After I'd drill fitting holes into the lure at determined locations for those lead-rolls to fit in .
I heard , that some guys even drill the holes first , yet a little deeper , and pour molten lead in !
Now the waterbucket testing is done and as much lead drilled out on a drillpress as neccessary to achieve desired sink rate .
Haven't tried it yet , since I know , that molten lead burns the wood's surface , and especially the leadplug inside the bore would surley start to turn , when the drillbit finds grip in it , so I guess after casting , it has to be pulled out and somehow bonded inside the bore with glue .
greetz , Dieter
Posted 03 July 2008 - 07:51 AM
You've got it together, for sure. I'm sure your method works. Funny, the word swage is universal, I guess, for all metalworkers. My father was a lathe hand and machinest. And we had a small metal lathe in the garage when I was young. So I learned a lot of metal working terms and information when I was young. One of my most treasured books is The Machinest's Handbook. Fun to read about thermite welding, different alloys, and all the rest.
I've also wondered if the wood scorched enough to make a loose fit when lead is poured into a lure.I don't know if guys who pour molten lead into their lures remove it afterward and set it in glue.
It seems to me that would kind of defeat the purpose of pouring it directly into the lure.
Posted 03 July 2008 - 08:08 AM
I cast a block of resin, in which I drill a hole and cast the lead in this. I use the same drill bit to cut the hole in the lure. This guarantees a perfect fit every time.
Even though this is essentially a one piece mold, with a few light taps, the lead slug is removed easily, as the lead shrinks as it cools.
Posted 03 July 2008 - 05:28 PM
I had considered to cast my weights in a mold as well , but I would make it out of aluminium .
I have made already some aluminium molds years ago , but for different items like jigging spoons , heavy football leadheads , sinkers , small spinnerbaits , etc.... !
Don't even remember all , they are buried in one box somewhere in my basement .
I guess , that I never made one for lure weights , because I don't like any mass-production of my handmade lures !
I always like new challenges in making different lures(By now I already have a new idea on my mind about a lure , that pops on the surface but can also "walk-the-dog" , maybe even on a shallow dive ?) .
And maybe such weights from a mold won't fit to all of my lure-ideas , though the weights could be cast in any length required by making the mold adjustable , but always of same diameter(for each different diameter I would have to furnish another cavity) .
It would only take some time , but presently I am really not into casting lead anymore .
@ mark poulson
I have found that word "swage " in an US tacklemaking book(did not know it before) , used there to describe the working process of a hammer beating onto a piece of metal tubing to render it flat and shape to a lure , so in my mind I assumed , what its meaning in German would be , since I am familiar with that described process !
So , maybe my own personal translation went wrong ? But can't be that much , I suppose:huh: !
Anyway , just checked my dictionary here , and its not there ! Must really be a metal worker specific term:lol: !
You are right , that first casting lead into a lure , pulling the slug out to glue it back in , would be rather paradoxical , but I assumed it to be neccessary , since I know , that molten lead shrinks , when cooling down .
But as I said , I haven't tried this weighting method before .
Greetz , Dieter
Posted 03 July 2008 - 06:27 PM
I thought in reference to lead that swaging was cold forming lead through a large amount of pressure into a shape. This process results in more consistency b/c there are no voids in the lead. Lead swaged bullets are known for their accuracy because of their consistency of shape and weight compared to cast bullets. That is how I had always heard the term used, at least in regards to lead.
Posted 04 July 2008 - 12:37 AM
So probably Mark is right about the universality of that word in terms of working on metal , obviously it means either to shape or comprime metal by means of an outer force , in case of those bullets it would be a press to force the bullet into a kind of mold to comprime them , I guess .
In case of the lead chunks it would be a hammer rendering their shape , but this is rather more like forging , but without utilizing heat:?!
But as Mark once mentioned in another thread or in a PM , American English is a living language due to people from so many different origins making up for the nation !
For instance I just read a term in another thread " truck jackknifing" !
Never heard this before , but instantly I understood , that its meant to describe a truck with either its engine or a trailer to "fold" together , just like a jackknife !
greetz , Dieter
Edited by diemai, 04 July 2008 - 12:39 AM.