swimbait , very first attempt
183 replies to this topic
Posted 30 July 2008 - 09:21 AM
Diemai, those are some good looking hinges. As far as glueing them in, I sometimes use twisted wire hinges like the ones BobP makes. I also use the same technique he does to install them. I believe this method will work well for your hinges. I mix my epoxy and then use a small wire to work the epoxy into the holes until they are pretty well filled. I then insert the wires and position them the way I want them and let them set. This is done on one half at a time (insert hinge in one side one night, other side the next night). The way you have those hinges made with the legs bent double, Mark is correct (again) they will not pull out unless the wood fails.
You are very creative. Keep up the good work.
Posted 30 July 2008 - 01:02 PM
Chiropractor says it's good for it. Keeps it stretched out.
Posted 30 July 2008 - 04:54 PM
can you please post a step by step of this process you describe or post a link to a step by step or something? this method sounds very interesting, and i would like to try it.
Posted 30 July 2008 - 05:27 PM
Mark and David , thanks a lot for your encouragement !
(also got pain in my back:yes:)
I have already made a first sketch of a new swimbait , that one is going to be 3 3/5" in length .
Have to make new hinges for it , since it requires shorter hinge wire arms , but now , that I gained some experience , it would only be a matter of minutes !
Do you refer to captsully18 or to myself with your query ?
To speak for myself , I don't mind posting about my progress in here again , but you might have noticed , that I am not on the speed course with my luremaking !
How about some first pics on making the hinge coils ?
I could do that in the morning , now its already past midnight over here , have to go to sleep soon !
Sorry , can't supply any links on that subject , maybe some other folks can ?
greetz , Dieter
Posted 30 July 2008 - 08:29 PM
i was asking captsully18 if he could tell me or show me the hinges he uses that bobP makes.
Posted 31 July 2008 - 08:46 AM
DSV, I will look for the link to show you pics of the hinge. They are on here somewhere, BobP has shown them. As son as I can find them I will post them here.
Posted 31 July 2008 - 09:01 AM
I have made hinges out of twisted sst wire, and they work.
I went to sst screw eyes because they allow me to adjust the hinge gap width before I epoxy them in. I use two eyes per hinge, so I can get them adjusted, remove one and epoxy it in, using the other as a depth gauge to be sure I have the same depth, and then do the second one.
I use 1" and 1 1/4" screw eyes. Since I have about 3/16" of the shank behind the eye exposed, I want at least 3/4" of screw embedded in the wood with epoxy. I've never had one fail or pull out. The screw eyes are thicker than the sst wire I use for the hinge pins, so I'm guessing the hinge pins would fail first, although I've never had that happen either.
I just picked up some sst bicycle spokes (thanks captsully) to try as hinge pins on my next set of lures, whenever I can get to them. The spokes are thicker, so they shouldn't ever break, but the real reason I want to try them is that the bigger bit for the thicker wire should be easier to drill without drifting.
No one system is fool proof. But, done right, all of them will make a lure that will last for a long time. I just went to the screw eye/hinge pin method because it's easier for me.
Posted 31 July 2008 - 09:24 AM
DSV, I cannot immediately find the post I was looking for. I will try to explain the technique. If I should confuse you please send me an e-mail to email@example.com. I have some pics saved from BobP that will probably help. Anyway, here goes.
Begin with a piece of stainless steel wire in the dia. you want. Bend this piece in half. Place the two ends you brougt together in the chuck of a drill. Next, take a piece of metal rod that is the size of the loop you wish to make (I use old drill bits for this) and clamp it in a vise. Place the loop of stainless wire over the rod that you just clamped in the vise. Hopefully you have a variable speed drill, and turn drill slowly. The wire will twist and when it is tight against the rod in the vise, You have one half of your hinge. Then you will take a second piece of wire and bend it just like the first. Before you place it in the drill, slip the first piece into the loop of the second. Repeat the twisting process until you have twisted the wire tight to the rod and now you have two twisted wires locked together in two loops. Then I assemble in the method described in the earlier post.
I hope you can understand my ramblings and that I have not muddied the issue too much. Please ask any questions you may have.
Posted 01 August 2008 - 01:34 PM
that is what i have been doing! i understand very clearly. someone posted a tutorial of that in the tutorial section, and that is where i got the idea from. i used twisted ss wire on my first swimbait.
i used ss wire loops on my second, but they weren't twisted. they were just bent like a cotter pin. PAIN IN THE BUTT TO CARVE GROOVES FOR THEM!
my bent wire loops were also too far apart, making my joints very spaced out.
i might try some twisted wire loops using a smaller diameter loop to try and limit the spacing.
i think what i am going to do is get some long screw eyes and use some bicycle spokes for my pin.
Posted 01 August 2008 - 02:21 PM
Thanks about that information on the twisted eyes !
But are they supposed to sit snugly in their bores or are they even twisted in:? ?
Or you even bend the ends of the twisted portion backward towards the eye to achieve a kind of hook to find grip in the glue:? ?
I know , that the bore must be thoroughly be filled up with epoxy , when glueing them in !
Yesterday during my workbreak I have put my initial sketch of my second swimbait into a neat shape , it turned out to have approx. 3 3/4 body length .
I am eager to find out , wether it would work out the way , that I have planned !
Here it is !
Greetz , Dieter
Posted 01 August 2008 - 02:33 PM
And I couldn't wait to start out with it this morning before work !
As I always do , I first cut out a photocopy of my sketch and glued it onto my wood board , I cared about setting the center reference line of the sketch paralell to the bottom edge of the board , so that I cut furnish the 90° separation cuts about 3/4 through the wood blank .
After I sanded the lures outline to proper shape on my disc sander .
Then I drew all the lines , that I need to proceed putting the lure to further shape .
greetz , Dieter
Posted 01 August 2008 - 03:01 PM
Still had some time left before lateshift , so I cut through the 3/4 body width saw cuts and also marked the the hinge bores onto the corresponding planes of the three sections .
I drilled the bores 3mm dia. freehand with my "Dremel" , and it worked out fine:yay: !
The wire coil hinges , that I've made already yesterday(little shorter than the ones shown in my first post about this new , small bait) , fit in nicely , they even bind sufficiently for the first bath tube test to come !
Since it would be a PITA to shape all these tiny lure sections separately , I have planned from the start to stick the sections together with some sort of pins , so I utilized some bamboo barbecue sticks , that I normally use for float building , for the purpose .
These were a little too thick in diameter , so I cut them a bit longer than neccessary and fixed them into the chuck of my lathe motor to sand them down to fit into the hinge bores , also ground a little point onto either end to have them inserted easily , after having cut them to approbiate length .
Since I took care(wasn't that hard), that the opposing bores would be positioned reasonably flush , I gained an almost perfect fit , and it takes quite a bit of force to poke the parts together and also pull them apart again , so they should hold up this way for all outer shaping by grinding and sanding .
Now I can shape all the three sections like it was a one-piece lure blank !
Next task is to furnish the concave/convexe shape of the corresponding section planes , I must also care about a snug fit of these , since it would add stability to the temporary pin bonds .
Also would have to drill the hinge bores deeper to fitting length , at least at the convexe portions !
After this I would finally start out with shaping the body taper and rounding-offs , also carve the details !
Hope , things would continue to get along well , Murphy should leave me alone for this time:p !
greetz , Dieter
Posted 05 August 2008 - 04:48 AM
Hi , everbody
Just this morning I have completed the woodwork on my new , small swimbait .
Everything went along fine so far , the bait also has the 90° essential movement of the three sections .
Though I am not sure , wether a 30" plus pike won't shred that tiny bit to pieces:? ?
I designed it for perch and zander(walleye) , but you never can tell , which kinda fish would strike , since in most local waters we have all the three of 'em .
Also I am not sure , wether I could still balance this lure to be a sinker , since there is not a lot of space left to embed plenty of weight , but a floater would be fine as well !
If it would swim well at all:huh: !
Greetz , Dieter
Posted 05 August 2008 - 08:34 AM
You're flying along! You make it look easy.
I really like the new lure. Good carving job, too.
I'm sure, if a pike eats it, the sst leader will keep him from stealing it. And the worst that will happen to it is he'll straighten out a hook or split ring.
There are worse things in life.
Keep the pictures coming.
Posted 06 August 2008 - 11:44 AM
Diemai, I apologize for not getting to you with answer on the twisted wires. Not been on here in a couple of days. The twisted wires are just set into the holes drilled for them. They can fit flush with the surface of the wood, or out as far as needed (of course, too far and they will have a tendency to bend).
Your new bait is excellent. Wonderful carving and those hinges look top notch. Good job, and as Mark says, keep those pics comming.
Posted 06 August 2008 - 02:13 PM
Thank you , Mark and David(no need to apologize:nuhuh:) , but I hung that lure aside right now(not for a long time:)) , next I must get started with a new topwater prototype , that has been on my mind for weeks now , still want to try it in the warm season this year , and you know , that I am not of the fasted kind .
I guess , tomorrow morning I'll get my lathe running:) , so I could do the sealing and painting together with that swimbait .
Also planning on some jerkbaits long time overdue for a friend and....and....!
So many lures , so little time:( !
Greetz , Dieter
Posted 30 August 2008 - 01:37 PM
Hi , back again here after a long time !
At first : I am disappointed on that second , small swimbait , but its my fault !
The wood is more buoyant , as I've thought , so to get it to sink , a lot of ballast is required , obviously more , than can be possibly embed into this small lure , due to space reasons .
Found out about this last week during a bath tub test .
The lure also did not swim in that snake-like manner too much , only the third section did wiggle a bit .
But this could also have been caused by the leadweights taped outside on the belly , they were just too large and heavy .
To still get this lure running I am now considering to place a lip into its chin , and put just enough weight into the belly to let it swim upright .
I would have failed my design target to achieve a deep running , small swimbait , but at least I would get a wakebait out of it:yes: .
BTW : Talking 'bout deep running swimbait .
I wonder , wether this could be achieved at all , since today I've fished that "carp" swimbait for the first time in my most frequently fished swim (average depth approx. 20 feet , deepest holes 45 feet).
Though it sinks level at approx. 1 foot/sec. and I let it drop to the bottom at 20 feet , it tended to rise up very fast , so that about the last quarter of the retrieve I could view it coming back under the surface .
If I won't let it sink at all , its backfin of brush bristles would "scratch" the surface constantly , the perfect wiggle of the lure also causes a wake on the surface .
Since I don't have experience with swimbaits a lot , I'd just like to know , wether it is somehow possible to built or alter those swimbaits to be able to be fished deep down ?
Or its in the nature of the business , that they are strictly topwater wake baits or shallow runners exclusively ?
If it should be so , I could not use them there , but for bankfishing other , shallow waters , since fish in there are most likely located quite deep:yes: .
Greetz , Dieter
Posted 30 August 2008 - 02:17 PM
Diemai, had the same problem with a glider, found out that it was because the height of the lure, for example a minnow shape will need less ballast to become sinking , so in my opinion you should consider changing the shape if you want to do a sinking one
Edited by pikeman, 30 August 2008 - 02:21 PM.
Posted 30 August 2008 - 02:44 PM
So you mean , that a slim , slender bodied swimbait would not have as much tendency to rise up on retrieve and stay deep better ?
My first swimbait sinks as well , it can't be the weight issue alone !
Would I have to place the tow eye not at the lower "chin" location , but further upward the "head" portion:? ?
Or better utilize a diving vane to keep the(sinking) lure down on retrieve , where I want it ?
But in this case I won't have a swimbait anymore , but a multiple jointed , sinking crankbait(won't bother , if the fish wouldn't , either !).
Too many questions:huh: !
Greetz , Dieter