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Coley

Poll votes

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The Poll Thread and Poll results are still there Pete, just go to this section. You must be the ones of those who bookmarked "new post" to get into TU. :?

The 1st thing I did when I got back from my trip was to check into TU and notice the post. However I differed offering an opinion as I have to find the time to read and understand what it is all about and weight the pros and cons. By the time I'm ready to vote, it's closed. :eek:

Anyway, thanks to Coley for opening this new thread.

Here's my 2 cents:

There will always be people who are willing to pay for a site access and those who don't; then some who are undecided. The most important criteria will be if the site content or community is something unique enough to warrant a paid subscription.

I support Jerry's plans for the expansion and enrichment of TU website. And I fullfheartedly feel there is a lot more that can be done for the site. However, at this present stage of TU; I do not feel a paid access to the whole site is a viable option and definitely not quitting a day job to go full time on the site just yet.

A win win situation could be -- maintain a free forum with paid access to what Jerry have in mind like more exclusive information, syndicated component buying, etc etc to the paying members. Other options include TU site hosting, paid gallery sapce, TU Store etc; with each having their own price structure so members will pay for what they need and not an all out payment to come to TU for bonding with other like minded hobbyist or like some senior members whom I notice are volunteering their time to help other enthusiast. Although Jerry did mention a discount structure for "valued" members, I have doubts on the enthusiasm continuing to "paying to share my idea". There are members who are generous enough with their ideas and "mentoring" which ppl will be willing to pay for but are now giving it out for free on their own time. It doesn't make sense to make them pay for the privilege of doing that. It does sound calous, but ppl pay for something tangible. I see a lot of yes for paying a subscription but as you read the reasoning, a lot are agreeable on goodwill, how long will the goodwill extend to make it a good business model? This will all be very subjective.

However if someone paid for a TU Store, Gallery Space or website then it is something tangible which will compel them to keep the subscription running as they have something to loose if it is discontinued. This will be a better business model. Extending the concept will be to say offer "mentoring workshop" subscription like how software are selling technical assistance where you have staff on hand to offer assistance in tackle making. Maybe a share profit structure with some existing members with the knowledge and experience to offer such mentoring.

There is also Ad revenue to think of in the free forum. I don't think there will be any objections at all for those surfing the forum for free to see strategically placed ads. There ae bloggers who are making a few K from ad revenue that rely on the fans that read the blogs. With the traffic of TU and targeted Ads, sponsors and pay-per-view ads, it is a viable income source.

So in short, what I am suggesting is to break the payment/subscription into components. Everyone pays for what they want and those who want the free content still get what they want (cost somehow offset with ad revenues). Win win for all and there is less concern of loosing members too if the site is locked into just a subscription model (not forgetting an extended subscription content that is available only to paying members - the free content acting as a dangling carrot to entice members to subscribe :teef:)

Lot's more options but I think I wrote enough for now as a general direction I feel that is more viable.

Best Wishes to you Jerry on whatever decision you make for TU site.

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I like that last post. Pay for the info you need. A partial subscription for access to the hard bait section, a partial subscription for soft plastics and a full subscription for access to everything and all its benefits. Those that click on to the site for the first time are given a general idea of whats on it and nothing more. At that point they have to decide whether to spend a couple bucks to get the info they need. I voted and I'm in whatever turn this takes. $60.00 divided by 365 days in a year is roughly 17 cents a day. What a bargain for a site as wonderful as this.

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Well ....... sorry you get mad at reality ......... the thread was started with Coley saying that it's ashame that only 76 out of 6000 voted ....... all I said was what do you think it's going to be with a $60 membership fee. Right now there are only 18 members on line ......... I pay membership fees to several sites even when I don't have to and I've bought a bunch of stuff here. And yes ...... there is good information .......but a $60 fee will kill this site ........ many many will drop out and few new people will spend the money to come aboard ........ so you'll be left with a few die hards and some professionals so there would be a lack of new ideas and fresh builders and people will go elsewhere ...........

Sorry guy but the world won't end if Jerry calls it quits ........ I'll just spend more time on other sites ............

This site is great and it works the way it is ........... don't break it by fixin' it

First of all I didn't select your name to start an arguement. I was just replying to your statement. So if you feel that I singled you out that was not my intention. I don't know if you voted, and it doesn't matter, but I stated the same thing you did on the voting thread. "That I like the site the way it is, and if less features would cost less then I would lean towards that". I am only expressing the fact that I would pay the $60 if that's what it came to, to maintain this site. It's no big deal to me. Money will probably not fix this, we will probably lose people, but I don't think that one man should burden the weight. It's not about the site itself, it's about the cost to maintain it. Lot of people want everything and give nothing in return. We all have to pay for what we want one way or another. I'm not directing this towards you, I'm just making a statement. I do apologize for the misunderstanding.

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I like that last post. Pay for the info you need. A partial subscription for access to the hard bait section, a partial subscription for soft plastics and a full subscription for access to everything and all its benefits. Those that click on to the site for the first time are given a general idea of whats on it and nothing more. At that point they have to decide whether to spend a couple bucks to get the info they need. I voted and I'm in whatever turn this takes. $60.00 divided by 365 days in a year is roughly 17 cents a day. What a bargain for a site as wonderful as this.

I like your attitude towards this. I also like the concept of breaking the subscription into what categories suit you as a person.

LaPala: Excellent post. I think your idea could be a viable solution.

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I like your attitude towards this. I also like the concept of breaking the subscription into what categories suit you as a person.

LaPala: Excellent post. I think your idea could be a viable solution.

I agree, I frequent this site- but, like many others, I am a "specialist" and only visit the wire baits forum and occasionaly the gallery. I am so exclusive to that forum, it's like the others don't exist to me.

Big-D

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Personally, I troll through all the forums, even though my main interest is hard baits. I find that there is a lot of knowledge that is transferable between the different fields of expertise. Just looking at the current active threads:

Flexible tails for swim baits, soft plastics could provide the best solution. Anything you want to know about lead pouring for ballast weights or working with wire for hook hangers, wire baits is the place to look. Information on PoP can pop up anywhere (sorry). So you want to dress your trebles, wire baits or the tying forum will provide the information. Painting and associated equipment, tons of it in the hard baits forum.

Some links have not been made yet and I have resisted jumping in, but paddle tails and lipped cranks work exactly the same way. Also, although there is a hybrid section, very little has been explored here. There is so much more to learn by not restricting yourself to one forum. There is so much more to be discovered too. Those of you that think it has all been done before, are sadly mistaken.

This site is not just about looking after the new members, giving them a leg up by sharing time served experiences. It is also about the little things, tricks, techniques. These can come from anywhere. Fresh minds are notoriously good at revealing new ideas. TU is also about innovation. True, lots of innovation happens, but it doesn’t find its way onto the pages every time. We all have plans for the future. I too have stuff that has not been revealed. Nothing wrong with that. But there is enough to make it worth while even for the lure vets to stick around.

The poll and associated discussions has been enlightening and has probably given Jerry lots to think about. Regardless of which route Jerry decides to take, I firmly believe TU has a bright future. There is not another forum that comes even close to TU in my opinion. That’s a couple of Ringgits worth from me!

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The Tackle shop is good idea! But I have to wonder if revamping the classified section first wouldn't be a more cost effective approach during the interm. It seems to me that there would have to be significantly more traffic driven to this site before a tacklestore would be successful.

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I visit this site about 4 times a week, and wouldn't mind spending the money to continue to do so. In my opinion everyone on this site is valuable, but there are a handful whose advice, baits to see on the gallery, and vast knowledge, can not be lost do to a pay site. I believe those few I'm talking about, don't get that many fresh ideas from the rest of us, but enjoy sharing their knowledge, and showcasing their talents. I'm not saying that they don't learn anything, but not as much as say me. So why not wave the fee for the group of guys that contribute in that way,

and mabey do the same later on for somebody else that might shine down the road. I think the guys that contribute so much without taking much in return would be a shame to lose.

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...

It's not about the site itself, it's about the cost to maintain it. Lot of people want everything and give nothing in return. We all have to pay for what we want one way or another.

...

Cadman, I hope it's OK to use your quote as a convenience to underscore a question I haven't seen addressed.

Does or doesn't the advertising space pay sufficient revenue for the maintenance of the site?

Probably more folks would be more willing to support a membership fee schedule if there was a direct answer to this question. There are over a dozen links for ads on this page as I write this. And that's fantastic-- I'm glad that there appears to be no shortage of advertisers willing to buy ad space on TU. As it is now, some pay for the privilege to advertise, some contribute their knowledge free of remuneration, and some reap the benefits of both for free. Seems equitable.

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Some people keep saying $6.00 a month isn't very much. In reality its not but in these times it is for some of us. I have cut back on my spending and basicly changed my life style but I am still living check to check. While still slipping behind. Everything keeps getting higher and higher but my pay check. So $60 a year is a little out of reach for me right now. I would do flips if I had three twentys in my pocket right now. My wife is going to Iraq soon and they don't pay for everything when you have been in the I.A.R. for a while. I am not trying to make people feel sorry for me because other people are a lot worst than me. Still I love comming here to learn and to give what I can and take my mind off of money. It would be a shame if it all comes to an end over money. I am trying to figure a way to save here and their to pay the $60 if it comes to that because I still need to learn alot. In the end it is up to Jerry what happens plain and simple. I understand where he is comming from. I don't think paying to go on other parts of the site is a good idea. So here's my idea make mebers that are already here pay $20 membership. Then another $20 for this year which is $40 up front. Then give a free 1 day trail to new people but don't let them be able to post or leave threads and print anything off. Then charge them $25 membership and $25 for the first year than $20 after that. Then charge more for the adds because they are making a good chunk of change of this site. I did vote no on the poll but afterwards I did some thinking alot of us do make money off this site in the long run even its a little or a lot. Why should Jerry not make anything and foot the bill for us and the people that advertise here. Think about it would you! yet $60 is a lot for me right now but I am going to try and get what ever amount it comes too. My vote is still going to be no because I don't like paying for extras right now but I also see Jerry's side of this.

Edited by King Bait Co.
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I would like to try and put it all in perspective, we don’t know how good we have it.

Anything we buy here is just about double what you guys pay there, and for Phil in the UK it's probably tripple, fuel here is now $7.82 a gallon, but compared to most places, it's cheap. – I know I don’t earn double, whatever a fireman in the US earns, and Phil certainly would not earn triple. I drove to Queensland last week to pick up a boat, cost me $600 in fuel (in a 4 cylinder car). Granted, I am single and don’t have the costs of some, with a wife and a couple of kids, but I did, and still managed to go fishing 2 or three times a month (probably why I’m single).

TU is not my whole life, but has become a large part of it. In the short time I have been on here, both on line, and in person, I have met quite a few, what we would call ‘genuine people’; ready to help with their ‘secrets’ and knowledge, gained over years of hunting/fishing. Here (in Au), I get sick of talking to people who idolize some pro fisherman, who says ‘X’ brand lure is the only one to use. They believe him every time he comes up with a new one, and shell out $15 or $20, just so they can say to their mates ‘Starlo’ or ‘Bushy’ use these – They are usually crap imported from China, don’t work, and probably have mark ups of 500%, they happily pay this, yet in the next breath complain about beer going up 4 cents a schooner.

For those that say, “why should I pay $60 a year when I can get it for free“, nothing is FREE. The Wild World Web appears to be, but every time we click on something .00001 of a cent is paid to somebody, and when we buy anything, the sting is added on. I am sure you know Jock Strap (World all time Bass Champion), gets his boat, sonar, batteries, outboard, rods, lures and probably jocks, for endorsing these products. Every time I/we buy one of these same products, the company has added a percentage to pay Jock Strap, (and his hangers on), so who is paying for Jock to have fun, and fish, ‘big note’ himself, and coincidentally, making a pretty good living at it – you and me. I just paid US$2,300 for a 54lb Minn Kota, 2 batteries and charger, add it up, how much are these there? It costs about US$3000 to fly from here to there, by the time I pay taxes etc, how much from there to here? I know your economy (and ours) is currently in a death spiral, to where the rest of the planet already is, welcome to the real world, where you pay for what you get, and everything is NOT subsidized (or endorsed).

I think we still have 4 choices here,

1. Sell/shut down TU.

2. Let Jerry pay for it.

3. Indirectly pay $60 a year when you buy something that is advertised in the ‘side bar’.

4. Or pay TU $60 a year.

I think I have a conscience, so for me the first 3 are not really an option - I would rather just send the $’s, even if it’s US$60, it’s about A$64.20 here. At 50/50, I don’t envy Jerry, having to make this decision ! ! Pete

Edited by hazmail
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Pete

Your right mate. We have an advantage at the moment because the £ is so strong against the $ as UK residents our fee would be more or less half price, how long that will last though is anyones guess. Petrol in The Uk is now £ 6:00 per gallon which is just about $ 12:00 as the exchange rate today is $ 1.99 to the pound.

Edited by philB
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I do have a questions. How much does it cost to run a web site like this with time, equipment and software? I had figured if you got the full 1,189 active members to pay $60 it would be $71,340 a year or even if half paid it would be $35,670 a year not including taxes taken out. I don't know if thats a lot or to little to run TU. I was just wondering.

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I think everybody needs too reread the proposed pricing structure.Everybody keeps saying it's going too cost 60.00 a year..It won't cost that......If you pay a year in full, you get 3 months free..if you pay 6 months..you get a month free.If you are a long time member AND CONTRIBUTER you will get a substancial discount on top of that.

Plus Jerry intends on adding a ton more content too be used..Nathan

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Gees King, open your eyes. Some aspects are taking place already. TU never stays idle for long. The HelpCenter is one of those new additions. You thought that fees collected would be about $70K, that is about the salary of a Sr Web Admin, but what about the web designer, application developer, advertising director, and all the other positions being filled by the same guy.

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The pole was easy for me. First time I sean it I voted yes and did not coment. To me its easy this is the only goto site. This is also the only site I belong to. I do not have tv, well I have 4 chanels. Do not eat out much (fast food or sit down) mabey 2 times a month or less. But give my children anything I fill they need or want to a point. I do spend money on my habit (making lures) Money made on sunday or side work on holadays. You know this hat fits good and is good quality to it. Try to buy a few things and see if that helps his desion. Bottom line I might start to sell my garded tackle to pay. I will help when asked.

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Well, I missed the poll, I just don't look around often enough and I missed it. Would I be willing to pay the membership fee? YES, I don't post often, I read much more than post, however when I have asked a question, the answers were swift. I have a part time Tackle Business and I have to make my time count. This site has a wealth of information, and the willingness to share. I'm sorry I missed the poll, but I will be a continuing member, as long as the site exists.

Have a great 4th of July

Mark Hiser

Ganns Performance Tackle

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I have been a member of TU since its birth. I have made a lot of new friends here; some that I have even had the pleasure of meeting in person. I have learned an untold amount of information. I don't post often but you can believe that I am usually here at least once a day unless I'm out of town or busy.

I, myself, find it hard to believe that anyone here wouldn't be willing to pay to keep this site running. How many fishing magazines do you subscribe to? How many "cold ones" did you have today? What is it? 1 pack or 2 packs of cigarettes a day? What about that brand new $200 rod or reel that you just had to have? My point is: we all buy things that we don't need. We just buy them for our personal satisfaction. But these things are disposable. Stop and think about how much knowledge you have gained from TU. This knowledge is yours forever! This knowledge can be (and has been for many of you) a money maker. I've seen the prices that some of you charge for your crankbaits. $25 or more. It just seems to me that for all of that knowledge that you have gained that you should be willing to give something back to the site. Even if it is $60 a year, I would consider that a bargain.

Gene

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Spike the reson for the question was me and my friend are looking to start a forum type site for are kids that are pre teens. It is going to be about fishing the kids do and they have a safe place to chat about fishing,show off their pictures of the fish they caught and lures they made that kind of stuff. Our main goal is the safety of the kids on the site first and formost. We just thought it would be cool for the kids to make friends all over the U.S. that have the same intrest in fishing as they do. My ten year old little girl likes to help pour worms and has a lot of questions about it. She doesn't get to pour them yet she just pulls them out the mold and keeps count for me. We were thinking of putting a general tackle making fourm on their also because alot of kids like the idea of making their own creation. We don't let them ask questions here because people get mad when a question has been asked before and leave a negative response or just say use the search. The problem is we don't have a clue on how much it cost to do this. Thats why I was asking about the money because we were thinking $5 to $10 dollars a year to keep the site up and running. People make it sound like it take $50,000 a year to do this ( not meaning Jerry just some of the stuff I have read so far on this). Sorry I didn't share my plans on the money question.

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King,

I'm sorry. There are web sites built like Lamborghins and web sites built like Yugos.

My definition of a Yugo - A static information web sight, where the content is put up by the acting web admin can be done on the cheap or even free if it isn't to large and you don't intent for those viewing it to post to it. And well limited and a little primative, it could all be put up in native html which is a free launguge you can put together with any plain text editor and view in most modern web browsers. It will do part of what you want but you won't like tha ride.

My definition of a Lamborghin - A custom, perpose built web sight where users can view and add multi-media content through intuative site navigation capable of handling hundreds, if not thousands of user requests, simultaneously, for data, media, and content without delayed server/application responce. An internet place where site and user security is built in and transparent to the user base, especialy when performing finacial transactions for the perchasing of goods and services and server reliablity has a better than 99.9% in commision rate.

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