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A Swimbait in the Making
72 replies to this topic
Posted 08 July 2008 - 09:14 AM
the chain is indeed stainless steel. i made very sure of that before i bought it. i bought it at true value hardware store for 99 cents a foot. it is very strong, i cant break it with my hands.
only thing im worried about is it's durability in the lure. im afraid that it might pull out of the slots.
i plan on using 2-ton epoxy in the grooves and to glue the halves back together, do you think this will be strong enough to keep the chain in its place or is there something else i should use to secure the chain?
now that i look back at the picture, i have a lot of room to make the slots for the chain longer. i think i can add at least 2 more beads per chain. i will make the slots as long as i can so that they are more secure.
thanks for the comments guys
PS: diemai, i did not use the tungsten carbide bit at all on this lure. i bought the bit after i was done shaping the lure. i carved the gill and fin detail using one of these: High Speed Cutter 1/8"
by using the "corner" of that bit, i was able to make some very defined lines.
Posted 08 July 2008 - 09:39 AM
I think there will be no point in burying too much of the chain in the lure. 1 1/2" should be plenty. With D2T, the epoxy will not pull out of the wood, and the chain will break before it pulls out.
Make a test with some scrap wood and a piece of chain before you decide how much to bury.
Be sure and let the epoxy set for a day, to be sure it's at max. strength.
Posted 08 July 2008 - 03:19 PM
i completed the chain slots, and added weights. i also made the grooves for the chains a little bit longer.
i then soaked them in polyurethane and hung them up to dry:
i might give it a run in the bath tub tonight and possibly in a swimming pool tomorrow.
Posted 08 July 2008 - 05:08 PM
Your work is just great , I am so eager about the results !
I assume , that you just located the weight positions by estimation , did you ?
Good to hear , that such chains are also available in SST , even better to hear , that they are rigid enough for fishing purposes !
And thank you for having taken the effort about that router bit link , I already have such a bit , even one of tungsten carbide , but with a longer cutting portion .
I guess , that it is just that I never have thought of using these bits for sculpturing gills , eyes , fins and stuff !
Seems that I think more in technical issues rather than in a sense for art:huh: !
But still I am going to look for the first one pictured here , I like it's slim conical shape .
One more thing :
I like those T-shaped twisted eyes , very good input to me , never used such or even thought about such an eye design .
One day I might surely get back to it for a new lure !
Good luck and success , Dieter
Posted 08 July 2008 - 08:28 PM
i kinda just placed the weights where it looked like they should go. no real rhyme and reason to it.
im gonna stick the halves together with rubber cement and give it a run in the bath tub! will report later.
Posted 08 July 2008 - 09:51 PM
well the bathtub tests were not very good but they weren't terrible either.
there is a problem, but i know what i need to do to fix it.
i could see the lure trying its hardest to wiggle, but there wasnt enough ballast weight to keep it upright. the head was upright, the body was cocked at about a 70° angle and the unweighted tail was about 45°.
so tomorrow i am going to add a few weights to the body and tail and then give it another run!
Posted 08 July 2008 - 11:15 PM
if i were you i would take it out and cast it, i have made two different styles of swimbaits and one seemed to swim in the tub but not when casted the other didn't seem to swim but swam great when cast. if its tipping like you say your prolly right and need to add some wieght
Posted 08 July 2008 - 11:25 PM
Great thread and way to think outside the box DSV. You are running into the exact problem I did when I tried to make a tri-segment flatsided bait (see my gallery pics). Especially with baits whose height/width ratio is large, keeping them upright is tricky. Keep at it and add more weight as low as possible. Perhaps maybe consider lead plumbing tape(I've never seen it, only heard of it). This way your weight would be at the very bottom of the segments which will best help it stay in an upright position. You may need to add some epoxy and sand the area of the plumbing tape afterwords (and make longer hook hangers)to get that "seamless/smooth" look though. Best of luck and thanks for the thread.
Edited by pizza, 08 July 2008 - 11:27 PM.
Posted 08 July 2008 - 11:58 PM
I like your thread !
You always come up with new things(to me) !
Glueing the two halves together temporary with rubber cement for a test run is something , I haven't heard of before .
In fact I am not so familiar with making lures out of two halves of wood , especially not multiple sectioned ones , just started out with a few simpler ones last fall , but here you took the working processes to a perfect and easy way to follow .
Thanks you so much for the input !
Good success with the weighting , Dieter
Posted 09 July 2008 - 02:45 AM
One can find out if his ideas will work only with the help of practise. The thread you started is a proof to that. There are some good ideas which you showed to us. Like Diemai, I like those T-shaped twisted wires. By using such wires, you win space in the segments, and you definately need space especially with a smaller swimbait.
You do not have to worry about the durability of those beads inside the lure. Mark Poulson is perfectly right, those beads will never pull out in case you use Devcon 2T to glue the halves together. I even think that you do not need to use the whole length of the chain in the middle section. 3 beads on each side will be more than enough to permanently glue the halves with Devcon 2T. This way you would be able to use the unnecessary weight at the top of the lure to the bottom of it, for a better stability.
But I would be worried indeed with another aspect. When you mentioned the durabilitiy of the chain, I thought at first that you refer to the chain itself, not to the possibility that it pulls out of the slot. That chain, even if made of SS material, will fail after a period of time, due to the wear and tear. I think that 2 interlocked twisted wires have a much longer life span than such a chain.
Are you going to leave 2 beads outside the body in a line between 2 segments? I think this is not necessary, one bead will be enough. The good thing about such a chain is that it allows the segments to move much easier than 2 interlocked wires. So I think that a bead chain is better or worse than other linking systems, depending on what you have in view.
But you have to think positive: think that a big fish will steal that lure from you, before the segments will start falling apart:)
Posted 09 July 2008 - 12:54 PM
wow, big post rofish!
a lot of thinking material in there.
the slots for the chain are kind loose fitting, but what i planned on doing was filling every slot on the bait with D2T and then lay the chains and wires and weights in and then put some D2T on the inside surface of the bait to help it stick together.
as for the wire loop idea, i really thought hard about doing that for this bait, but i decided not to because that is a very common method, and i wanted this bait to be unique. so i used bead chain which is something i have never seen done before.
i was taking a gamble at doing something i have never seen done before because i dont know if it is proven success. but i figured i would go ahead and do it and see if it works or not. who knows, maybe it will start a new trend!
as for the number of beads between eac segment, i was planning on leaving 2 beads inbetween each segment. i havent tried it with just one bead though. i know 2 beads looks very spaced out, but i did this because i want a wide range of motion on this bait.
why do you say it will fall apart!? thats not very positive . and i will not think a big fish will steal it from me because that isnt positive either! instead, i will think that a big fish will borrow it from me .
this bait won't be seeing much action from huge fish either. i would be shocked if i caught an 8lb bass (which is huge to me, but not to some people from california or the south). bass are the top predator in most of the lakes i fish, except for a few that have pickerel. so its not like i'll be catching 30lb pike with this lure.
Posted 09 July 2008 - 01:00 PM
oh, and diemai,
the rubber cement didnt work quite like i had planned. it wasnt holding very good so i ended up using two sided tape.
then the tape started falling apart.
tonight for the second run i think i am going to just use a drop of super glue here and there.
Posted 09 July 2008 - 01:14 PM
I think Rofish was concerned about the actually wear of the wire to ball connections in the chain. Swimming the lure will make these points rub a lot (assuming it swims like a fiend!), and sst, while very corrosion resistant, can be a somewhat soft metal, unless it's tempered.
But, as you say, it's a prototype, first-of-it's-kind lure. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Get it finished and fishing! The worst that can happen is you'll have to make another if something in this one fails.
And I hope it's tested by a personal best bass!
Posted 09 July 2008 - 01:16 PM
yeah i will not really be too upset if this one goes wrong because i had a blast making it and i cant wait to make the next!
Posted 09 July 2008 - 02:44 PM
I would be scared about using "a drop of superglue here and there" !
One might not get the halves apart anymore , this stuff can be devlish !
Double sided tape sounds safer to me !
Last fall I started out making my first baits(one piece) out of two halves(halfround pinewood dowel).
For symetrical shaping of back and belly and also to press them together to obtain an indention of the internal wire harness into the joining planes , I connected the two parts flush with thin and long brass woodscrews(2 mm dia. X 20 mm length , roundhead ) .
When I had to grind and sand the flanks of the lures tapered , I replaced those screws with ordinary bamboo toothpicks to pin the halves together , since the screw's heads and points were in the way for such work operation , the wood pins potruding I could just grind away .
For lateron permanent wood glue bonding with the harness set in(indentions have been previously extended with a very small "Dremel" router bit) , I mounted the screws again to press parts together until glue sets . The two ends of lurebody I additionally taped together tightly with plastic tape(cable insulation tape) , so that they would sit real tight together .
So , what I want to say briefly is , that why not drilling crosswise holes throug the body sections to pin them with toothpicks , barbecue sticks or similar . Two or three per section would be OK to achieve a rigid temporary bond , and you could just hammer them out with a filed blunt nail or wire piece , when you want to open up the halves again .
For final closure of the screw holes you just set the wood pins in with glue after removing the screws and sand flush on the flanks or , vice versa , fill up remaining holes with wood filler .
It only works this way with woodglue , since it doesn't bind the screws .
When using epoxy , you would have to set in the wood pins straightaway and press the lurehalves together by other means than screws through them .
Sounds a bit complicated:huh: , but it isn't , once you get a hang on it !
Good luck and success , Dieter
Posted 09 July 2008 - 02:54 PM
thanks for the advice diemai.
i dont think im gonna use superglue
i also dont think im gonna go drilling holes through my lure. its too late in the process for that. maybe next time.
instead i will just use hot glue.
it dries fast, holds tight, and peels off easy.
i just re-configured the weights:
i coated the insides of the new weight holes with superglue to seal them because i dont feel like waiting on polyurethane to dry for such a small area. after the superglue in the holes is dry, the lure will be waterproof and i will stick it together with hot glue and give it another run in the bath tub!
Posted 09 July 2008 - 03:04 PM
Nice idea as well about hot glue !
Yeah , I forgot to mention , that I don't advice you to try these crosswise wooden pins on this actual lure-in-making , but maybe for a later model , would have been to late at this stage , though !
Posted 09 July 2008 - 04:11 PM
well the hotglue worked nicely, it was easy to separate, but it was a bit of a pain in the *** to get out of the weight holes. other than that it was good.
well the bath tub tests came back positive...IT SWIMS!
it hung vertical in the water and swam. i think it will swim better when i take it out and cast it because as you can see from the video, it doesnt begin its S motion till the end of the pull, once it has gained some momentum. it also does a 180 when twitched. i tried to show this in the video but it was very difficult holding the camera in one hand and pulling the bait with the other. so sorry for the crappy, shaky video, but here it is:
Posted 09 July 2008 - 05:05 PM
Still the video provides sufficient information , well done !
Though I am not into swimbaits yet(never even completed my first one , first paint tomorrow) I think that something could be done to improve the action of your bait .
But I am sure , more experienced guys would call in and tell you their own opinion:yes: !
OK , as you stated and also to be seen in the video , your bait takes quite a long way to "kick" to wiggle , I assume , that this could be improved , if the lure still comes to float up a little deeper as it does now(or even would be a sinking lure) .
In my theory , there is a kind of leverage between tow eye and the head portion of lure , the current generated by the retrieve speed tends to press against the head portion , so it would be forced to swim to one side .
The pull direction towards the angler tracks the lure back again , the hole thing results into this snake-like motion:? .
So , I think , if your lure would be less buoyant and sit deeper , the force of the oncoming current on the head section would be higher , either letting the lure wiggle stronger or earlier on the retrieve:?.
You can try this by taping on some weight addition on the belly externally , I do my crankbait weigthing that way , it does not hinder the action too much !
But obviously there is not much space left for any more weights , but your lure does work without it as well , so no problem:yes: !
Really great for your first one , indeed !