Joints and Line Tie
13 replies to this topic
Posted 06 July 2008 - 06:52 PM
ok guys, i need a little help here.
i just jumped into swimbait making on a whim today, and i need a little bit of help on something.
how should i shape the joints on my swimbait to maximized its chances of swimming right?
you can see from my thread "a swimbait in the making" that i plan on cutting the joints at a slant. is this good or not? should they be vertical? now that i think about it, vertical cuts would provide more room for the joints to swing.
is there a certain shape i could cut the joints in that would provide better action? i see a lot of baits with V shaped joints like this << and some with U shaped joints like this ((. would it still swim if i just cut the joints straight like this ||? or what about if i cut them with reverse V's like this ><?
also, where should i put the line tie? i was thinkin of putting it just underneath the chin of the lure. is this a good place?
thanks for bearing with me.
Posted 06 July 2008 - 07:34 PM
Wish I could help, I am very interested in what you are doing, but I have never tried making a swim bait. So hopefully I will learn as you do. Good luck with this project. And don't be discouraged if the first one doesn't perform the way you want it to. With the knowledge you gain from the first and each subsequent lure, every lure you make will look and perform a little better than its predecessor. Thanks for starting this project.
Posted 06 July 2008 - 07:45 PM
The shape may affect the action somewhat but I've had good results on bass baits with slanted and straight up/down joints. Both swim just fine. I prefer a moderate back slant so the joint is less observable to a following fish. As to tapering the segments at the joint, that depends on how much you want the joint to flex and whether you want the segments to click together. The specific joint mechanism you select also enters into it. Clicking segments wear the clearcoat faster and you need to keep an eye on them. I definitely wouldn't want them on a trolling bait. If you use epoxy as a clearcoat, you want all the edges at the joint to be rounded off. Epoxy draws away from any sharp edge and becomes quite thin. Looks OK but isn't. The swimbaits I've made have diving lips that "swim the bait". If you're talking about gliders or lipless baits, you need advice from a musky lure maker.
Posted 06 July 2008 - 08:56 PM
im not going to have "hinges" per say, what i planned on doing was running a chain thru the middle of the bait. i dont wanna screw anything into this bait, so i dont want any screw eyes on it. i just dont have confidence in screw eyes.
i changed the bait from having slanted joints to vertical.
as for the shape of the joints i think im gonna go with a slight U shape.
Posted 07 July 2008 - 12:09 AM
DSV. The chain idea sounds very interesting, not read that one before. Could you post a pic showing what you have in mind.
Posted 07 July 2008 - 07:50 AM
Check out this review of the Strike Pro Flex Phantom. They use a "bike chain" jointing system. I don't know if this is exactly what DSV is after, but according to the review it is VERY strong. If you go to Strike Pro's website, they have a video of the flex phantom in the water and it was a nice (if a bit exaggerated) swimming motion.
Posted 07 July 2008 - 08:34 AM
DSV, if you are going to use "chain" hinge then <-< config would provide more freedom of movement. Make the front < flatter than the back <. You can experiment to see what angle provides the desired amount movement for you.
(-( is usually best suited with eye and pin hinge kinda joint; with the back ( an arc of a circle and the pin located in the centre of the arc. This joint has the potential to be "seamless".
I like these 2 methods as they hide the hinge hardware best.
With |-|, it's the corner of the joint that will knock agaisnt each other and freedom of movement dependant on how far apart the hinge hardware seperate the joints. a mod to straight joint will be to taper the edges like below to get more movement:
/ Hope this helps.
Posted 07 July 2008 - 08:46 AM
Many thanks for the links SmokeyJ.
I have to agree about the action. Something not quite right. But, like they explained, the point was not to closely imitate a fish, rather than instill curiosity. Very nice, it certainly got the fish's attention. Pity the chain idea was patented.
But the multi segment idea is still on, using other techniques already discussed here, such as Kevlar etc. When I experimented with this type of bait, I used a nylon thread, it swam very nicely. I’m thinking of making another to video, left the original in the UK unfortunately.
As for the hinge shape << etc. I think BobP nailed it, to hide the hinges, except I believe to catch the anglers eye rather than the fish.
I’ve looked into linked chain before, to drive a very slow rotating table (1 rev/4 min). But not too sure how strong it would be for this application.
Posted 07 July 2008 - 09:17 AM
i planned on running stainless steel bead chain thru the middle of the length of the bait.
if you take a close look at the jointed portion of this lucky craft live sammy, you will notice that there are two wires running thru the length of the tail portion:
i want to do something similar but instead of wire i will use stainless steel bead chain.
Posted 07 July 2008 - 09:35 AM
thanks for the info. that really helped. when doing what you described, would you make the front < the "female" here, i sketched something that better explains this.
also, i considered building the joints right into the wood. most people use screw eyes that are put into one side of the joint and the recessed into the other and a pin runs down thru them. well i considered just carving the wood in a way that would eliminate the need for screw eyes, but still need a pin. i also sketched this.
i think this bait is better suited for the chain idea because the bait is split down the center. i would fear that if i used the integrated hinge, that the split would greatly weaken the strength. on a future bait i will test out the integrated hinge by making it from one piece of wood and just screwing hardware in.
Posted 07 July 2008 - 10:22 AM
What you describe is a "door hinge" kind of joint, 3:16 Lure Co. (and a few others) uses that joint type.
Posted 07 July 2008 - 01:00 PM
yeah i got the idea last night while trying to fall alseep. my mind was just racing with ideas and i couldnt sleep . i was trying to think of all the successful swimbaits and what kind of hardware they use, and 3:16 wake jr. came to mind with its "no see thru" joint.
im not sure if i wanna try doing that with this bait or not... i think i want to try the chain idea on this one and maybe use the door hinge on the next.
Posted 07 July 2008 - 01:21 PM
Another newbie thought on this topic, has anyone tried to use a piece of leather to make the joints?
Posted 07 July 2008 - 02:00 PM
i havent tried it, and i wouldnt plan on it.
leather is strong, but i wouldnt trust it. plus it gets waterlogged and its easier to rip when its waterlogged.
add to that that its organic and will rot if its not properly taken care of...
plus its ugly