WidowMaker Posted December 23, 2003 Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 I am wanting to have the Do-It Brand SNT-3-AYS Snootie Jig Mold altered so that i can pour a jig head without the ball collar. I discussed this with a couple of tool and die makers and they presented the three following options for doing so: (1) Buy a blank mold and use a cnc to cut a completely new mold. This would run into a lot of time and a considerable amount of money for the initial setup. (2) Use a filler to fill the part of the cavity i want eliminated. What material would be suitable for doing this without "wearing out" after the continual exposure to 700-800 degree temperature of the lead. (3) Use an aluminum welding method to fill the part of the cavity i want eliminated and then re-cut the cavity to the desired specs. Will the type of aluminum the Do-It Molds are made of "blow out" when they are welded in this manner? If im not mistaken the Do-It Mold blanks are cast aluminum and then the cavities are cut into the blanks. As opposed to other types of molds which are cast aluminum with the cavities formed on the initial casting. Any information concerning this matter would be greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delw Posted December 23, 2003 Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 You can used good epoxy and it will work pretty good, Jb weld works better. then after you fill in the bad parts use a dremel tool to cut what you need. if you want to hold your hand steady find a book or something the right height to steady your hand it should come out fine. CNC machineing is obviously the best way cause all your molds will be identicle. Ive also heard bondo works good as well and holds up to the heat. Delw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WidowMaker Posted December 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 Thanks for the advice. I have some questions about the JB Weld. Is it actually a metal or an epoxy or considered both. How should i prep the mold so it will accept the JB Weld? How long should the JB Weld last if i dont go hog wild on the production. How would the heat affect its durability? Thanks for the advice about keeping a steady hand while using the Dremel. One option i was considering was to put a Dremel bit into a drill press. That way i could set the height and then use both hands to move the mold back and forth on the deck of the drill press. To avoid removing too much material was thinking i could use a coarse cutting bit to remove the majority of the material. Then switch to a much finer grinding bit and then a polishing bit to finish it out. I wonder if a drill press would turn high enough RPM to do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tally Posted December 24, 2003 Report Share Posted December 24, 2003 widowmaker- If you have a jig that doesn't have the ball on it, get the JB weld and mix it up and apply to the area of the mold you want to fill. Then put the jig you have without the ball collar in an close the mold. wait a couple of minutes and open the mold and lift the jig out. You might have to add more JB weld and repeat until the mold comes out looking the way you want. I have modified a lot of jig and spinnerbait molds this way. Make sure you wipe the excess JB weld off your mold or it won't close tight. Tally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triton Mike Posted December 24, 2003 Report Share Posted December 24, 2003 You may be doing this presently but this is an option. Cast the snootie jig with the collar on then take some lead cutters and cut the collor off and slide it down the hook and blow torch ie melt the cut collar off of the hook?? Just a thought.. You can do an assembly line thing one person cast and another cut and melt the collar off. T Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WidowMaker Posted December 25, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2003 When i first cut the collars off i noticed some discoloration on the shank of the Mustad Hook where the collar had been. This is due to the heat of the lead contacting the hook while it is in the mold. I did as you suggested and found that melting the collar material off the hook resulted in discoloration of the hook. I also tried this with some jigs i poured with Eagle Claw Hooks. With the Eagle Claw Hooks i did not have the discoloration problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WidowMaker Posted January 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 The JBWELD has a heat tolerance of 500 degrees farenheit. If i remember correctly lead is about 750 to 825 degrees farenheit. I took a DO-IT Erie Jig Mold (it has a very long ball collar) to my buddy and he is going to test weld it to see if the mold material can withstand the heat. If it does we are going to try to weld it and then cut a place for the hook to fit. What are RTV SILICONES and how do they work. What are the heat tolerances on them and could they be used in the same manner as which the JBWELD would be used? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clemmy Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 I've never tried this, but am just brainstorming:couldn't you use a high melting temp solder like silver solder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Splash Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 I have made modifications to older Palmer molds using JB Weld, it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WidowMaker Posted January 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2004 Big Splash.....how long did the modifications last? Clemmy.....i dont know if the silver solder would work or not, im not to familiar with it or its applications. Ive gotten several good suggestions. I dont want to give anyone the impression they dont know what they are talking about by pressing for more information. I just want to make sure i have all my bases covered if you know what i mean. I appreciate all information i get on this board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gr8flyz Posted January 20, 2004 Report Share Posted January 20, 2004 Pure elemental lead melts at about 622 degrees F, impurities & alloys will cause variations in the melting point. Silver solder won't work on an alumiinum mold, it won't bond to the aluminum. JB Weld & even Devcon will hold up to the heat for a while depending on how much pouring you do. I've used both, and eventually they had to be repaired. Usually the bond between the mold & the JB Weld, or Epoxy is what gives, and they flake off the mold. If the mold is used a lot, expect the repair to last only a few weeks, provided the material was allowed to cure properly. If you goof, the repair will most likely come loose the first time you use it. JB Weld will usually outlast epoxy. The best bet is to have the mold welded & CNC milled as Del suggested, but that's also the most expensive alternative. Of course it's all relative to how much your willing to spend & how much return you expect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celticav Posted January 21, 2004 Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 Listen to Gr8flyz, he probably has a couple of hundred Do-It molds or more and I would bet good money that 98% of them are altered in one way or another. Check his product list if you doubt this. I have altered about 6 of mine and thankfully only one needed to be repaired and I used JB Weld too and only get a little flash from my goof. JIM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gr8flyz Posted January 21, 2004 Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 Jim, I don't have that many! Last time I counted I had about 70 molds, most are Do It, but I also have some Hilts, and a few Palmer & Herters molds. I have modified several of them & some serve dual duty. I've only had to repair one mold, the result of trying to modify the mold & being in a hurry! If you do use a Dremel & do your own modifications, take your time, plan what you need to do & don't be in a rush with the grinding, and use the correct size or type of bit. It helps eliminate mistakes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WidowMaker Posted January 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 So the DO-IT MOLDS can be welded without the mold material disintegrating or blowing out because of the heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celticav Posted January 21, 2004 Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 We are talking JB Weld here WidowMaker we call it "Please Don't" in my neck of the woods... as in , "Put a little bit of that Please Don't on it and you should get another month outta it" LOL, you mix this stuff up and apply it like metallic epoxy for the most part. When it dries it is pretty durable, you would not ever believe what I have seen made from this stuff... or what I ahve seen being held together by this stuff. Its as critical as Duct Tape or Bailing Wire when your jury-rigging something. And we got colleges here in the south that you can earn your masters or even your phd in jury-rigging. LOL, Seriously though, check it out at any Tractor Supply, Home Depot, ACE, etc. It is really good stuff, easy to work with, gotta a million uses, and like devcon is pretty cheap to keep around. I used my dremel tool to alter my molds also, I use the flexible neck extention with my dremel that flexs and bends so I can work the cavities easily, like Gr8Flyz said the correct bit is crucial, I like a soft one that requires alot of work to remove material off the mold... keeps me from changing anything too much at one time and forces me to work slow, JIM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gr8flyz Posted January 21, 2004 Report Share Posted January 21, 2004 Widowmaker, I'm sure it can be done, I don't think your average weld shop can do the job, but someone who specializes in light guage aluminium may be able to weld it. I knew a guy who did injection mold repairs for companies like Black & Decker. He did a lot pf specialized welding, and had the equipment to do it right! He was also very expensive! I'm sure it could be a disaster if the person doing the welding didn't know what they're doing! I've done a lot of welding, but wouldn't try to weld a mold, it does require the proper knowledge & skill to do it right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WidowMaker Posted January 30, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 THANKS A LOT GUYS.....all the information is sincerely appreciated. I think i will go with tally's suggestion about placing the jig head in the mold and then adding the JB WELD. Arent there two types of JB WELD? A faster curing one and a slower curing one. I am assuming the proper method would be: (1) Open the mold up and lay it on a flat surface. (2) Place the modified jig into the cavity. (3) Add a moderate amount of the JB WELD. (4) Let cure briefly and then remove the jig head. (5) Repeat steps 1-4 as necessity dictates. (6) Repeat steps 1-4 on the other side of the mold. In the event i have to much JB WELD on the mold and it will not shut properly should i have any problem "lapping" both sides flat with a fine cut file. It only seems proper i would have to do this in order to achieve a close tolerance on the final mold alteration. Will the JB WELD stick to the jig head and the shank of the hook? If so what can i do to eliminate this potential problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tally Posted January 30, 2004 Report Share Posted January 30, 2004 widowmaker- Do both side of the mold together. 1) get your modified jig ready. 2) open mold flat so you can work on both sides. 3) mix the JB Weld. (it comes in two tube like epoxy) 4) You will have to determine how much to put in the mold. I would suggest using a toothpick to do so. 5) put JB Weld in both sides. 6) Lay modified jig in mold 7) Close mold and hold tightly together. After a few minutes open mold and carefully wipe off all excess JB Weld 9) repeat steps 7 & 8 10) remove jig carefully. I do not let JB Weld set up completely before I remove Jig. You may have to repeat the steps. Sometimes when you remove the jig, a little JBW come out with the jig. Simply put alittle more JBW in the mold and close the mold with the jig in it again. It is not as difficult as you think, and you will see what I am talking about when you do it. Just make sure you wipe off all the excess JBW from the mold so it will close properly. I hope this helps. If not, e-mail me and i will walk you thru it. Tally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WidowMaker Posted January 31, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2004 I understand what you are talking about. You should get a camera and take pictures of the process so it can be added the tackleunderground.coms tutorial section. It sure would make for some interesting and practical content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WidowMaker Posted February 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 Well i found a guy to do the welding and he seems to really know his stuff. I gave him a Do-It Erie Jig Mold (the one with the ball collar) to practice on. He welded one of the cavities and went ahead and poured it. The end result appears to have come straight out of a factory mold. Im still going to try one with the JB-WELD just to see how well it works. It would be a shame not to use all the advice i recieved in response to my initial post. Again your help is truly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerkbait Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 Having worked with metal most of my career I have fouind that most drill presses will do the job milling aluminum. Find someone who has a cross-slide vice and you can get real precise with the movement under the arbor. High temp RTV will last very well and is similar to the production mold material that a local company(Silver Buddy) casts thousands of baits a month from. If you have a problem with it flaking out, a small hole(about 1/8") drilled in the center of the fixed area perpindicular to the patch will give the extra volume of JB or rtv a place to hold and adhere to. Those of us who have made too many mistakes while modifying a mold are hesitant to make it worse by drilling out more material but it does keep the patch in place way longer. Welding with a TIG torch is the only permanant fix and usually requires further working after. Find a local weld shop or vocational school. If the problem is merely to open a hook or wire slot, pressure from big vice or arbor press will indent the soft Al enough to hold the wire/hook in place and if it flashes a little, you can GENTLY tap the area witht the hook/wire in place with a hammer to set a little tighter. A very sharp wood chisel will also cut a nice neat slot but just use hand pressure, if you get too carried away, you will be patching again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titowoody Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 Will look into the material spec for the mold themselves. Will then play around with a Miller Syncrowave Pulse TIG welder. I have a few old swimming jig molds from mid 80s that will act as unwilling test subjects. After Jerkbait's timely post, Thank You Sir, a world of oppertunity awaits. The Pulsing feature is great for welding Aluminum. Cheers TW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr B Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 A buddy of mine used Bondo to fill the space for the weed guard on a mold and it worked fine. It mignt be easier to remove later if you needed to. Mr B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bamarocks Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 i have modified several of my molds using jb weld. dont have any problems with any of them. instead of using a dremel you can use a good set of needle files. they come in assorted shapes and work very good for the hook groove. also like you said once the stuff is cured i take a good file and file it smooth on the mold face so i dont get any flash. i havent had to repair any of my molds that i have modified yet. i tried devcon to start with and once your mold gets hot the stuff melts but never had that problem with jb weld. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranger20 Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 Tried for my first time today to put JB in a oversized mold and put a jig inside of it and try to duplicate it. What a friggin mess. It took a good hour for the JB to set up. It said 4 minutes on the package, I wonder if it was old stuff? Anyway how do you keep it from sticking to the jig you are trying to duplicate? How do you keep the do it mold in separate halves because when you clamp it together the jb sticks on both sides and then strings out when you separate them. I'm going to try some new jb and see if things go any better. I just joined this sight and love all the insight you guys have. Just want to get through this first project before I try stepping up to the next one. Thanks for any help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
