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Another question on Paints.
16 replies to this topic
Posted 23 December 2003 - 12:49 PM
This is kind of directed at those that use the Createx paint. At the local craft store they had Createx paint that was basicly like a car paint, ??? the other paints were for Airbrushing T-Shirts, kind of for fabrics. Are these paints one and the same? My first airbrushing I didnt do very good on... AND I USED TO BE A HALFWAY DECENT AIRBRUSHER... but I airbrushed T-shirts... NOTHING SMALL like lures. I used some of the craft paints as well and of course its been a few years and I didnt water down the paint. Second try... I think it was too watery. So Im learning as I go and you guys keep pointing me in the right direction. I used a Clear coat 2 layers, then 2 layers of a Rust-oleum plastic primer then I airbrushed the lure. The paint didnt seem to be sticking to the lure...so Im not sure of the proper paint over the proper primer. Im still trying to work that out so any help you guys can give me would be helpful. Cody
Posted 23 December 2003 - 01:29 PM
Cody, I may not be the best one to respond to this as I am just learning to airbrush myself. I have learned a lot from guys like Skeeter, Coley and others. These guys know what their doing and can teach us a lot. There are some things I have learned on my own through trial and error and sometimes being too hard headed to listen to the people who know what their talking about. I use Ceratex paint that is for painting T shirts. I fill a 1 oz. bottle 1/2/full add 1/4 more in water to fill the bottle 3/4/full. This mix has worked well for me. As far as the paint running, I tried praticing on white paper and my painting looked great, no runs or drips, but when I painted a bait, it was another story- nothing but runs. I have found for me it is best to adjust the airbrush so I can hold it farther away from the bait and I get good results. If you need smaller detail I mask the area and paint , giving me the look I want. If you do not want a hard, clean edge on your detail, lift the edge of the masking tape just a little as to allow the overspray to go under the edge,this will give you a feathered edge. As I said, I'm just learning, hope this helps. Joe
Posted 23 December 2003 - 04:04 PM
Cody, your paint for createx needs to be about the thickness of milk you may be thinning a little much, I shoot the createx auto air and reg. createx and don't thin at all except on some of the pearls(very very little)are you shooting a dual or single action,air press (18-22 psi) ? I'm new to this also but these are some problems I have run into.For primer everybody seems to use something different I shoot over the createx base coat sealer(high binder).
Posted 23 December 2003 - 11:25 PM
Createx is just a plain damn pain boys. I have played with pressure adjustments, thinning, needles, etc. I have managed now and then to pull off some nice baits with this stuff, but to me it is not user friendly. I never thin this stuff, just pour and shoot. Shoot it somewhere between 12 and 18 psi.
My guess on your problem is that you are shooting over your clearcoat. Waterbased paints don't like to stick to clearcoats. It's like painting glass. If you are going to paint over clearcoats then use lacquer. Lacquer sticks to just about anything.
Posted 24 December 2003 - 09:29 AM
Skeeter, I followed Carolina Chips Tutorial on his webpage (ALMOST) to a tee... EXCEPT FOR THE PAINT PART. Whatever Chip had in his site with the tutorial.... I WENT OUT AND GOT IT! Chip kind of didnt say what kind of paint he used.... OOPS Brand I guess.
BUT FIRST, I used the Min Wax Clear Coat over a hand carved Balsa Body.. 2 layers and sanded with a fine grained paper between each coat. Just as he did. Then I used the Rust-Oleum Plastic Primer, 2 coats and fine sanded each coat. Again as he did. I then took a base paint of white it is a white that is a water based Acrylic I bought at the craft store. I DIDNT ADD WATER TO THIN IT OUT, and of course had problems with that. It splattered out of my Airbrush!! I added water and it was too much. Cobwebbed everywhere!! I think I got the problem monitored ok now, and sprayed the lure with that. I also wasnt all that sure that the primer was doing its part and the paint beaded up, BUT I also tried to put a lot of paint on the lure at one time. I am trying to be quick and it doesnt help matters out. I was also getting VERY FRUSTRATED!! In between painting and working on the lures I surfed the BACK ISSUES OF POSTS ON THIS SITE, (WOW I FEEL STUPID ASKING THE SAME QUESTIONS YOU GUYS ANSWERED 200 TIMES!!) and somewhere I read that you have to do the painting in coats to build your paint up OR ITS GONNA BEAD UP! Personally, I will admit I am rushing these lures to ready them for Christmas gifts but I am Doing, Messing Up, Fixing AND LEARNING WHAT TO DO AND WHAT NOT TO DO!
After I got the base coat done I frisketed an area, To leave it White underneath, I used some frisket film to block off unwanted areas to be painted and of course.... the paint was too thin and it bled everywhere. I resanded, added another primer coat, added another base... then I used some glitter paint over the base coat. THIS GLITTER PAINT LOOKS AWESOME. The bad news on this is that it adds a texture to the lure. Im gonna guess that at least 3 coats of epoxy are needed to cover this stuff. ?????? : HELP!!!
I also covered the lure with a layer of a Glossy Polyeurathane... ??? I dunnoh why. Then I repainted on top of that. I was concerned about the paint I had already painted running as described by others so I wanted to seal it. I actually used a SHarpie for some fine lines. What does Everyone else do for that? And do you clear caot after each layer or coat it with something? And what type or brand. :
I am kind of happy with the results so far from these lures, especially since its the FIRST TIME, but as I said, IM DOING, MESSING UP AND LEARNING! I am truly afraid to use a laquer paint through my airbrush! That is kind of scary, but Im thinking if anyone else is using this, what are the pitfalls. What type of laquer paint are you using? I am really set in my ways I guess for using the Acrylic based paints for the EASY CLEAN UP, and also the ventilation thing. I feel a little hungover today from the fumes of the epoxy I used yesterday.
I also dig on the Gallery Photos, some of the colors are so VIBRANT its amazing. Darn those lures make me hungry just looking at them! Any info or help on those questions would be GREATLY APPRECIATED. Cody
Posted 24 December 2003 - 12:49 PM
I also have been having some trouble with Createx. I just pour and shoot the stuff. Some paints such as black I can paint a line and hold a continuous line, but red Createx will sputter and that drives me nuts . I heard it was pour and shoot, so I haven't tried thinning it any. At 3 bucks a bottle and a 45 minute drive to get more I have not really wanted to mess with it much. Could that be my problem that I need to thin it some or is it like Skeeter says just a pain to mess with? I really don't want to shoot laquer right now because my building is not heated, so I have be using strictly acrlic paints. What other brands do some of you guys recommend?
Thanks and have a Merry Christmas
Posted 24 December 2003 - 06:08 PM
Guys, I guarantee, I'm NO expert, just a very old novice. I was havig trouble with Createx, so after about upteen phone calls, I called the company. I was told to run the pressure above 25 lbs. I just pour, and shoot. We live 2 hrs. from anywhere, so I try alot of different things, and read the forums alot. Not saying this is the way for everyone, but it works for me. If one thing doesn't work, that's what they make base coats for. Good luck, and don't give up. Doug
Posted 24 December 2003 - 06:27 PM
READING this post about createx paints > remember this isen't a premium paint but it is a med. blend paint and its got its problems.Unlike premium paint that needs ventilation and can be heated, I spray createx at 60psi and exposure to air will thicken it so it must be thin enough from the start yet not mixed with thinners or other property breakdowns. I suggest looking at other brands used in taxidermy.The paint is thin and made for airbrush painting. About $1.50 per oz. Thinning will not be a problem with these brands.I'm getting ready to experiment with this paint proble this weekend.
Posted 24 December 2003 - 10:12 PM
Thanks allstate48 I will give the pressure thing a try. I have been setting mine to about 18-20 lbs , so I will crank it up a little and keep messing with it some. I would like to give laquer a try, but I won't until spring when I can move my equipment back out into the building. I heard it was much easier to shoot just harder to clean up, but it would be worth it for some better looking baits.
Posted 25 December 2003 - 04:37 AM
I know alot of people are are having trouble shooting createx but there are alot that don't, I use createx auto-air and have had zero problems the auto air is made to shoot over motorcycle helments,gas tanks etc...I dont thin,though not a great painter by any means Im shooting over devcon with no problems you just have to start light, I spray a light coat on, release the paint flow and keep the air flowing for 10 sec.s or so then give it more paint until you get what you want,you just can't get in a hurry.Cody and jelloboy make sure your tips are staying clean and needles are adjusted properly, sometimes dryed paint will buildup affecting your spray(splatters),also make sure your brushes are clean sometimes just running water thru them or cleaner is not enough about once a week I run a brush thru my VL and you would be amazed at what comes out. You might try straining your paint also by cutting a small peice of panty hose and screwing the lid(paint bottle)down on it.I know laquer is easier than water base but I shoot with my kid's standing right beside me(they like to try to make baits too!) and it's nice to know that the fumes arent bothering them.Anyway goodluck and hope this may help you.
Posted 25 December 2003 - 10:34 PM
Thanks VMAXX for the panty hose tip. i will barrow a pair of my wifes in the morning . I try to clean my brush but i havn't bought a good cleaning kit for it yet. I haven't been airbrushing long maybe a month and a half. I got alot of projects i still want to do such as a good turn table for drying the epoxy. Gets kinda old setting thier for 30+ mins move baits back and forth but it is well woth it I have never had some much fun witha hobby (besides fishing).
Posted 26 December 2003 - 12:10 AM
Yeah I know what you mean it gets addicting but frustrating at the same time,but at this time of year it beats working in the yard ! I should have told you in the last post when Im shooting over devcon I'll scuff it with some fine sandpaper and my first coat is a base coat sealer made by createx, I got my cleaning brushes at www.dixieart.com they were like 10.99 but they are worth it,no problem on the tips any tips I have I promise you I have learned off this board.
Posted 26 December 2003 - 11:06 AM
Hey guys, Yes its a great hobby and Im enjoying it alot. I handed out my first bait to my Father in Law yesterday for Christmas, he liked it. GRANTED, its a bit on the Hockey Side... but He liked it. And later tonight I will post a photo of my first baits. I finished 3 up.... HOWEVER I am in no way shape or form gonna ever even try to top that 10 LURES IN 10 Days! Sorry... thats TOO MUCH WORK and my hats off to you for that. My three took me like 2 and a half weeks. I DID OK....... since Im giving these out as gifts first. I learnt off of this web page and learnt some good tips. Im gonna do a couple for myself that I truly will think will actually catch fish!! I hope, but as I said I'll show em to you guys tonite... KEEP UP THE GOOD TIPS! Im lovin it! Cody
Posted 26 December 2003 - 07:42 PM
I too have had (and still have) problems with this stuff(createx). I have most of my problems with white and black. Every other colors is ok. Skeeters got me convinced to try the laquer but I dont have the ventilation this time of year so for now Ill stick with the createx (it sure is a pain though) I may try swithching needles on my paache vl. Should I be putting on the bigger or smaller to get it to spray easier.? You shouldnt have to thin or use pantyhose with the price you pay. They advertise "ready to shoot" so what the ........ I shoot around 25-30psi.
with this stuff but am anxious to try something new. Bob P.
Posted 26 December 2003 - 09:54 PM
Robertjp since your saying white and black Im assuming it's the first coat your having trouble with ? Have you tried shooting lightly and then finishing up ? Tip size's are 1,3,5 with one being the smallest 5 being the biggest(thicker paint), As far as not having to use panty hose it's just a fail safe so you don't get a clump in your brush and possibly ruin the bait your workin on, how old is the createx your shooting ? I do shoot mine straight from the bottle with no thinning,but I don't blame you if your not having any luck with it Skeeter's right go for the Laquer,since this was not an option for me I just kept playin withnit until I got what I wanted.
Posted 27 December 2003 - 09:19 AM
Since I started reading these post, I've been changing pressures, just to see what happens. I shot some Createx, at 40 lbs. of pressure, with a 3 needle. You have to be quicker, but there wasn't any splatters. Next I went with the smaller needle, and tured the pressure down to around 20. With some fine tuning, I could make some good lines. What about Tester paints? They make a line of acrylic paints. Just keep messin. Good Luck Doug
Posted 30 December 2003 - 11:03 AM
For those of you that want to shoot water based paints, my suggestion is that you try straight latex water based paint. Regular house paint. I shot this stuff for years and still do use it. I use One and Only from Lowes. It is cheap and really goes a long way. You can get a pint for about $3.00. You will have to learn to thin it with water. I pour it in the cup and just add enough water so that after it is mixed it will slowly drip off of the end of the tooth pick that I use to stir it. I shoot it between 18 and 20 psi. The problem with this is that I let it dry completely between colors. The really nice thing is that if you make a mistake then you can wipe it off if you catch it immediately. BUT the coat underneath the mistake must be completely dry or it will wipe off also.
For lacquer, here is what I do. For now I use Pactra Lacquer that is used for RC cars. You can get it at any hobby shop. I shoot pearls without cutting it. Regular colors I thin at 2 to 1 with acetone. Don't be affraid of it. It is a really sweet way to paint. You will need a respirator though. Water based paint will eventually dissolve with water. Lacquer will NOT. IT WILL STAY IN YOUR LUNGS. You do need to spray where there is ventallation. You will use alot less paint and it dries extremely quick. When spraying scales, it is almost completely dry as soon as you shoot it. I still use water based latex to dot my eyes and side dot. It works just fine. Clean up is not bad. Shoot a cup of acetone, MEK, or lacquer thinner through the gun and you can go to the next color.
Regardless of what ever type of paint that you use, cleaning the gun thoroughly afterwards is mandatory. Learn to tear down your gun and clean the parts with hot soapy water when you are done for the day. I use a pipe cleaner and run it through the gun to get the tough crap. But you will find that if you clean after each color that the gun will always perform at its best.
For taxidermy paints that were mentioned in one of the posts, try this one.... www.taxidermy.com They have paints that are both water and lacquer based. They are just pour and shoot.
If any of you all have any water based latex or lacquer questions... just ask.