only swims at high speeds...
15 replies to this topic
Posted 14 September 2008 - 11:03 AM
my latest bait, a 4 pc shad style swimbait has the most awesome fluid snake like swimming action, but it only swims at high speeds. if i slow roll it in, it comes through the water straight.
any ideas what causes this? any ideas what i can do to make it so it will swim at slower speeds?
i tried bendng the line tie down but that just made it worse...
Posted 14 September 2008 - 11:56 AM
I have some ideas that should make it swim easier at any speed.
firstly I see that you don't have any angles on the leading edge of each body section. That would be the first thing you should fix. I use an angled router bit to quickly remove the wood equally on my swimbaits. I hold each body section in a clamp to keep my fingers away from the deadly spinning blade.
Secondly, the spacing is a little wide between sections. This is an easy fix too. I use a different router bit to carve a notch into the trailing edges of each body section so that the screw eye is recessed into the notch somewhat. This will tend to make the sections easier to ger moving at slower speeds also.
I've attached a photo f someone else's swimbait showing the specific angles I'm talking about.
Posted 14 September 2008 - 01:35 PM
try tweaking the screw eyes on the joints only takes a bit of friction to stop them working
Posted 14 September 2008 - 02:49 PM
I am no specialist at all in swimbaits, but my guess is that the sides of your swimbait are too flat. There is a so called "Coanda" effect in relation with fluids, which says that a fluid has a tendency to flow very close over a surface. So if the water flows straight over the sides of the first segment, it will continue its flow straight over the sides of the second segment, and so on, without "knocking" on the next element to cause it swim. At higher speed, the water will knock stronger on each segment. But if you make the water flow on a curved surface of each element, it will also "knock" stronger on the next section.
I repeat, this is just my guess.
Posted 14 September 2008 - 04:25 PM
k thanks guys.
its too late to modify this one, but i will keep these suggestions i mind for the next one.
Posted 14 September 2008 - 04:59 PM
I haven't made hardbaits for quite a while now; but hydro dynamics are the same for any-type bait.
What I would do first is make a new tail piece. Make it thinner on the leading edge; as suggested before; but I would make the tailend of it wider and slightly flared out on the sides.
My thinking is that once you can get the tail section swinging the rest of the bait should pick up some of that motion, especially at slower speeds.
Posted 14 September 2008 - 06:52 PM
good thinking nova,
that would be like making a paddle tail but on a hard bait
Posted 14 September 2008 - 09:04 PM
Another suggestion, more weight in the head and less in the body sections. If you have to put weight in the body, put it as far forward as you can in each section. I disagree that making the tail flared will make the bait kick, In my experience proper weighting of the head section is what makes the bait work.
I have made several 4 piece swimbaits that are as close to anatomically correct as possible, that means that the tail is just like a baitfish, the skinniest part of the body.
Weight the head, carve your joints at 45* and you will be well on your way.
Edited by bdhaeh, 14 September 2008 - 09:10 PM.
Posted 15 September 2008 - 12:35 AM
Both of you are right in a degree, but weighting is the key. float test each segment before assembly so that they all match the sink rate you are trying to acheive but keep the tail sections as light as you kan if that makes sense. The heavier the tail the more force it takes to push and so on and so on. Now flairing the tail does work but if it is too heavy to begin with it wont matter.
Posted 15 September 2008 - 07:01 AM
with what you have built I would say remove the tail section (last joint) as it appears due to shape it would have very little effect on the swimming action but only serve as drag killing the swing of the other sections......
Posted 15 September 2008 - 10:10 AM
Jigmeister, To me, your bait looks fine. My belief is that if you add weight to a swimbait, it should be in the first section. This weight should be as far back as posssible, and as low toward the belly as possible.
From your pic, it appears to me that your line tie is too low. If you want to experiment with this one, put in another line tie a little higher, make it longer so you can move it up or down to find out which position will make it swim better. This has saved several of my swimbaits. Seems as though some of them need to use the resistance of the back against the water to get them to "wiggle".
I have built swimbaits in several ways. Some like the one you have in your pic, some with the "tounge and groove" (ala, triple trout), and some with a more solid hinge. It just takes a lot of patience, and trial and error to find out what combination of all the various elements works for you. You say that your bait swims good at high speed, then I think you need weight in the head, and a higher line tie to make it swim at slow speed,
If I have made this as clear as mud, I am sorry. If you have questions, let me know and I will try to clear up the fog.
Posted 15 September 2008 - 10:19 AM
I was just taking a closer look at pic. It appears that you have added weight to all of your sections. This may be the problem itself. If you wiggle a chain all the links wiggle. if you add a weight of some sort to several of the links they won"t wiggle as much. I am gonna bet that if you would remove the weight in the second and third sections you would find that your bait will swim at slower speeds. Not sure from pic if the weight in the first section is forward of the hook hanger or not. If it is, remove it and place it where you have your hook hanger (or as close as you can get it).
Now the above ideas will eliminate any horizonal sinking, and if this is what you are looking for then if you follow what I said you will loose this. But It will make your bait swim better.
Posted 15 September 2008 - 06:39 PM
I agree with the weighting ideas posted above.
And I think you have enough room in the three front sections to make up for removing the tail weighting, and still be able to have it sit horizontal.
Dave, I like you line tie idea.
I would try removing the hook hanger from the tail section, where the hook can cause drag and inhibit movement, and move it to the rear of the next section forward's belly.
You can slot the tail section, and put in a lexan or plano divider tail, or you can epoxy in a sst coil, and use a Triple Trout-type plastic tail. Either way the tail will move more.
I have a 10" 4 piece trout lure that has a feathered tail, and it doesn't swim like I want it to. Now that we've talked about it, I'll probably move the hook hanger forward, and slot it's tail, too.
Edited by mark poulson, 15 September 2008 - 06:42 PM.
Posted 15 September 2008 - 06:45 PM
I just checked you picture again.
Don't tell me you carved that bait with a Swiss Army knife?!?
Posted 16 September 2008 - 08:48 AM
Hi, in my opinion the shape of this bait is the key...maybe in combination with weighting, but it seems to be the same problem someone else had with his bait some time ago here one TU.
The tail section has a poor body depth, meaning there is missing some area on the belly section of the tail where the vortexes can roll...
I would bet the lure would work if you would turn it upside down with all weightings on the opposite side. Then there would be enought area on the belly section of the lure.
Good luck with trying...