what paint to use(oil-water)
16 replies to this topic
Posted 16 November 2008 - 04:11 PM
ive been using oil base paints for my crankbaits but hate the cleanup.Was wondering if i can use water base paint then seal it with an oil base clear? it sure would make cleanup a lot less of a pain in the butt. And would save tons of time.
Posted 16 November 2008 - 04:57 PM
You sure can. I started with enamels and also hated the cleanup. I now paint with acrylics. The inexpensive ones I thin with windex and they work fine. I then seal with my clear epoxy.
Edited by Spike-A-Pike, 17 November 2008 - 07:58 PM.
Posted 16 November 2008 - 05:33 PM
Cheap "Folk Art Acrylics" work well for me. But my air brush has a bigger hole and don't plug up. I would not use it in an expensive internal mix gun. Createx would be a better choice then. Not as many colors and harder to find for me.
Edited by 21xdc, 16 November 2008 - 05:35 PM.
Posted 16 November 2008 - 06:03 PM
ok great to know.now my next question why do you thin with windex????
Posted 16 November 2008 - 06:10 PM
If you buy the cheap folk and apple barrel brands from Wal-Mart you will need to thin. I use primarily createx paints which require no thinning whatsoever. Createx paints are more expensive but they last forever. Just buy black, white, red, green, and gold and you will be ablel to do tons of patterns, no thinning require. Set your tank at 45 psi. Nothing wrong with the cheaper paints, particularly if you are after a color not offered by createx. You will generally have more trouble with clogging with the cheap paints tho.
Edited by RiverMan, 16 November 2008 - 06:11 PM.
Posted 16 November 2008 - 09:36 PM
Watch what you thin acrylics with. Being that there's probaly 1000+ different types, and not all thin the same. They may spray and look nice, but they film will have no integrity and be like a chalk coating and lead to premature paint failure. Many are Ph dependent and that's one reason why you see them curdle and get chalky. The PROPER universal thinner for acrylics is 80% water: 20% glycol ether, sometimes butyl alcohol also. Windex will work for some paints, but don't expect it to work for all. It's a "ghetto" thinner. LOL
Nothing personal to anyone, but I find it funny how people will spend all that time carving a bait, getting all detailed, charging someone $30-70 for the lure, but skimp on the $0.01-0.03/lure it takes to follow the paint manufacturers directions and use the proper materials. LOL
Edited by Downriver Tackle, 16 November 2008 - 09:47 PM.
Posted 17 November 2008 - 10:34 AM
Ethylene glycol n-hexyl ether
Isopropanol - Used as a solvent and reagent. This type of alcohol is used in ink and other products
Ethylene glycol n-hexyl ether - Weak acid to help kill bacteria.
Water - Keeps pH levels stable, and to act as a solvent.
Posted 17 November 2008 - 06:10 PM
From the same Wiki page:
The patented formula was: 4.0% isopropyl alcohol (a highly volatile solvent) 1% ethylene glycol monobutyl ether (a less volatile solvent), 0.1% sodium laurel sulfate (a surfactant), 0.01% tetrasodium pyrophosphate (a water softener), 0.05% of 28% ammonia, 1% of a dye solution, and 0.01% perfume, the balance is water.
But as noted, the formula changed to new solvents. The problem with either formula is the level of glycol ether, and type now with the new formula. Ethylene glycol monobutyl ether is the prefered solvent and universally compatible with most acrylics. n-hexyl ether is not compatible with all acrylics. Beyond the type, the percentage needs to be higher. All that alcohol is a problem also. The gycol ethers act as what's called coalescing solvents and are what allows waterborne emulsions to be miscible in water, and necessary to add alcohols. Without the proper level of cosolvent(generally 4-7% minimum), the whole paint mix could become unstable and no longer be water soluable. Thus, the paint components separate and you get a clumpy mess in a bottle or gun.
I'm just as guilty of trying to shortcut it. I have a bottle of Autoair flo yellow that I blew out a few weeks ago. Thought I'd thin it just slightly with water alone, but the next day I had a bottle with a layer of water, resin, and pigment. Scrap! I've done it many times before with no problem, but every batch of paint is different. If the factory was adjusting the viscosity with just water, they could have stretched it to the limit, and I just pushed it over the edge with what I added.
I would say that if you are using Windex and there's no problems, then keep at it. Just keep what I posted in mind if you ever use it with a different paint, or even color, and have a problem that you can't explain.
Just food for though for everyone.
Edited by Downriver Tackle, 17 November 2008 - 06:58 PM.
Posted 18 November 2008 - 03:21 AM
Dt & BJ- I think I will just hang in 'The Shed,' where in my mind, life is so mono and simple. Sorry I ever posted that. pete
Posted 18 November 2008 - 06:13 AM
Nothing to be sorry for. We're all here to learn and like to play chemist. Nothing better than a little chemistry lesson to help.
Posted 18 November 2008 - 08:22 AM
wow and i thought i had just a simple question.had no idea their was so much involved.As you could have guessed im new at this i i fell about 18 feet from a tree and broke my ankle.With 6 months off my foot i figured it was time to start lure making . I bought a badger360 gun and a bunch of lacquer paint now im going to start with the water base i guess i will just have to practice thinning and see where it takes me.im no chemist and want this to be as simple as possible.Thanks for all the replies its been a great help.
Posted 18 November 2008 - 09:14 AM
Ouch! Glad the ankle is all that broke.
Posted 18 November 2008 - 11:55 AM
Pete, please don't ever be sorry for posting anything. You are one of the most knowledgeable guys here and even though I don't post much, I read a lot and have learned so much from your posts..... Including this one.............. Sames goes for you DT....
But..... with my chemistry research staff well employed, we did find the REAL recipe for Windex:
The Real Windex Recipe
Ingredients 2 oz Vodka 1/2 oz Parfait Amour Orange Peel
The Real Windex Directions
Shake vodka and liqueur with ice, and strain into a chilled cocktail glass. Garnish with orange peel, and serve.
Serve The Real Windex in a Cocktail Glass
It may be a bit "ghetto"............ but it works..............
Edited by BJ Smith, 18 November 2008 - 11:57 AM.
Posted 18 November 2008 - 12:59 PM
mark-yeah 18 feet i could be dead was hanging a treestand. 8 days in hospital 3 plates and some screws and im good to go just gonna have a lot of ass time.
BJ- im no chemist but something just doesnt seem right about your windex ricipe.... LOL