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Posted 31 December 2003 - 11:23 PM
I'm wondering if there are some mathematical laws by which all crank-baits follow. If so, software could be developed, and perhaps this has already been done, that would allow a guy to enter into the software a particular plug length, width, diameter, ciricumference, etc., and the desired running depth. From this the software would then provide information on the exact angle and length of the bill, and line tie location for things to work perfectly. I am guessing that for wood there may be too many variables as a result of changes in density, moisture, tree species, etc., for this type of approach to provide significant accuracy, plastics may be another story.
Assuming this information is not available, how are all plugs made today...entirely by trial and error?
Lets say for example you are going to build an entirely new line of crankbaits, you therefore have no no original design to go from. You would like the plugs to run 5, 10, and 15 feet respectively.
How do you know:
1. The length and width of the bill?
2. The line tie placement?
3. Angle of the bill?
4. Body size/shape?
I know there are guys on this site that know the answers to these questions, so to them I ask, is there an approach that can be used time and time again or is the development of all new plugs still by trial and error and intuition?
Posted 01 January 2004 - 04:26 AM
Hey Jed, I am new to this site and also new to lure making and Im pretty excited about turning out my first baits EVER. Again I thank a lot of the feedback that goes on here, cause I couldnt have done it with out reading this forum! I am truly hooked.. (NO PUN INTENDED!)
Now getting to your query, I am sure the major lure making companies have software that would incorporate their exact specifications for their lures and designs. That software is PROBABLY is incorporated into the duplicating machines that will "CRANK" out their lures in the EXACT specifications. HOWEVER, that would be proprietary information and would not be offered to the general public! So with that being said, if you came up with the "PERFECT" design and a lure that would catch fish..... AND you were able to MASS produce those lures, would you want the EXACT MEASUREMENTS AND PRECISE PLACEMENTS... to be copied? Probably not!???? Major companies have not only "SCIENTIFIC" teams who study the Design aspects of a lure, but also DESIGN teams who will test, study and design the lures they create. And it will all be done on a computer. AND BIG BUCKS ARE INVOLVED! But the lure companies software... (IF IT EXISTS LIKE I KNOW IT DOES) is designed to First design, and then "DUPLICATE" the same thing over and over. (also duplicate over and over with the machines they are using.) True HAND MADE LURES are going to vary from one to another in its design and its "HUMAN PRODUCTION OF NOT BEING PERFECT!). Thats the great thing in my opinion for hand made lure making, You actually get a one of a kind lure.
One factor involved is to be able to catch a fish with something you made. (like Skeeter says!) AND 2 to have fun in the MAKING OF LURES which is a Hobby of trial and error.
A true Artist CAN NEVER paint the same painting exactly over and over, IT AINT POSSIBLE... remember a handmade lure can never be precisely duplicated as well. Rembrandt and Michaelangelo did countless hours of studies of their models before actually turning out their work of art. AND IT WAS 1 Major work of art. Same is applied to the handcraft aspect. No two will be exactly alike! The object is to come close to the last one you made that WORKS WELL, but also to learn from your last lure you made and what worked about it and what didnt. The more practice you get the better you will get at coming closer and closer to duplicating another better. Dont expect it to be perfectlly... it isnt going to be. You will have to use your own measurements, and your own creativeness and also TRIAL AND ERROR. But even if you or me had that software, converting that into the blank piece of balsa wood or whatever wood you use and shaping that into a lure is still going to be a major challenge with out a machine to do it. Im very long winded about that and Im sorry. But I am very anxious just to get widdling away on my next baits and hope they have some good action that will catch some fish! Cody
Posted 01 January 2004 - 12:02 PM
Great questions.....and I think you are both right.Jed to answer your question...for us it's mostly trial and error....if you asked me to build lure "X" that dives 4 ft and has a wide wobble....I've built enough lures through the years that I could probably have you a proto-type in just a couple bait experiments...Now if you asked me to build you something that dove to 20ft...thats not a realm I mess with,and your talking a whole lot of experimental baits!!!
I know the "BIG BOYS" use computer generated graphics etc. to build their lures..look at all the commotion of the Frenzy cranks Berkely is putting out...that was some serious computer work!!!
But like Bassanator said..with us no two baits are exact.....we can come extremely close...maybe we can't even tell the difference with the naked eye..but the differences are there!!!Actually, with the big companies working with wooden baits....theirs will be a little different too....wood dencity(spelling?) is smething they can't overcome either!!!..Nathan
Posted 01 January 2004 - 01:51 PM
I guess we all know that computers are making the decisions on many of the plug designs these days. What I was trying to get at with this post is how guys determine the basic questions of lip size, lip angle, line-tie placement, etc., in a way that is a bit more direct than "trial and error". My dad always said "you think to hard about things", perhaps he was right, lol.
Posted 01 January 2004 - 01:54 PM
Perhaps Jed is asking for a decent starting point, not necessarily to have all the work done for him. I agree that an experienced lure maker can produce a good prototype in just a few trials, if the prototype's requirements are within his experience. But let's say this fellow wants to venture into new territory, for whatever reason, and doesn't want (or have another 20 years) to gain the expertise required for the new lure.
Here's the basics of my dream computer program (in no particular order):
- There's a "modeling" table, a tool box, a bench full of "objects" that have user configurable properties.
- Rubberband property that could be applied to any object. By simply dragging and dropping, an object could be resized. Other properties would be adjusted accordingly. For example: A screweye is made 54% larger, its weight would be increased proportionally.
- Be able to change the view point of the lure in progress. Maybe more easy to say: rotate the lure in 3D so the top, side, bottom, 3/4 view, whatever can be seen.
- The laws of physics could be applied to the lure. For example: it could be moved through water and (based on the lure's characteristics) the computer will show how the lure behaves. Another: move the lure at x feet per second into a xx mph headwind. Optionally, lines of forces could be shown.
- Design files can obviously be saved, copied and editted. This is an easy requirement since it would be a function of the computer's operating system.
- A lure goal could be part of the design and the program would "understand" the goal. Example: floating/diving lure made of wood, dives to 15 feet, wiggles, rattles, blinks and beeps and looks like a perch.
- Based on the goal and objects that the computer knows about, the program could offer suggestions to achieve the goal. A suggestion might be something like: The total weight should be reduced by xx amount. Substitute a 3/4" brass screweye for the 1 1/8" stainless steel screweye. Or maybe: Replace 12mm glass eyes with 8 mm plastic eyes.
- A nice extra would be the ability to decorate the lure. Again, the decorations could be user configurable. Things like: various types and colors of paint, glitter, various clear coatings and eyes, ears, noses, tails, etc.
- Bill of material generated at any time during development.
- Produces a dimensioned drawing.
- Examples of object properties:
vendor's part number
- Package or box template maker.
Here's a walk through of usage:
- Start with a blank modeling table.
- Grab a lure "blob", stretch it here, pat it in there, assign the material type, rough out the side view, top view and then apply the smoothing "tool". The smoothing "tool" perfects the handdrawn curves and shapes.
- Select and attach a diving lip at a starting angle.
- Select some weight and place it.
- Select and place hooks.
- Check model against the goal. The program might suggest reshaping the lip or repositioning the weight.
- Perform the steps above until happy.
- Request a Bill of Materials at any time to see how you're doing with purchased parts.
- Decorate the lure and re-fieldtest to see of any of the add-ons affect performance.
- Print the dimensioned drawing and head for the workshop to make a prototype.
Wow. I guess I got caught-up in this....
Well, what do y'all think?
Posted 01 January 2004 - 03:01 PM
"Perhaps Jed is asking for a decent starting point, not necessarily to have all the work done for him. I agree that an experienced lure maker can produce a good prototype in just a few trials, if the prototype's requirements are within his experience. But let's say this fellow wants to venture into new territory, for whatever reason, and doesn't want (or have another 20 years) to gain the expertise required for the new lure".
Oh and sign me up for a copy of that software too would ya?
Posted 01 January 2004 - 05:28 PM
One answer is "MOULDS" (I think thats how you spell it).A Mfc. is going to use a mould or cast and templates. They normally use plastic and punch out 100's at a time. They aren't going to give up there secrets but I know a few mills that will mass produce your wood lure blanks at a steep $$$.You still have to fine tune it and ballance it. I have made my first template for my mini lathe to produce exact wood lure blanks and it still takes alot to copy. No copy is exact and the fish don't know the diffrence. It takes a lot of paper notes per lure style.