Ted Bateman

Paint seperating between layers.

27 posts in this topic

I painted some lures with cretex pearl paints and sealed the lures with water based polyurathane. After fishing the baits for a hour or so, in saltwater, the paint layers above the white pearl seperated and peeled off. This occured after catching a few toothy fish which scratched the surface and allowed water to access the lower layers of paint. The baits are top water walk the dog types, and are Bass Wood construction. The same water based polyurathane was used to seal the wood. My questions are why did the paint seprate between the gold pearl and white pearl layers and not the others and what should I do to stop this from happening?

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Createx needs heat to fully cure and become water-resistant. I heat all my baits at 120 degrees for 15-20 minutes before I clear them.

Second, the clearcoat. I'd go with something other than w/b urethane. Many suggestions here.

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I think the biggest problem is with the w/b poly. I tried usng it and had nothing but trouble. I went back to epoxy.

ipock2

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We often discuss moisture-cure urethanes on this board, and as a cautionary note, DO NOT confuse them with water-based polyurethanes, such as MinWax's Polycrylic. These coatings have about as much in common as steel and chalk when it comes to protection.

Water based polyurethanes are for coating interior furniture etc. They are water resistant, meaning you can quickly wipe up a spill without damaging said furniture. They are totally inadequate for coating lures, as the coating will acually begin to soften and decompose in the constant presence of water.

Water-based polyurethanes are the WORST clear coat you could choose for your lures. Dip them in clear lacquer, dip or spray them in any kind of varnish that is not water-based, whether marine, spar, or polyurethane; use epoxy; use Dicknite's moisture-cure urethane topcoat, or choose an automotive urethane clear: Use anything BUT a water-based poly product!!!!!

...and don't forget to heat-cure your Createx, of course, as Downriver mentioned.

Dean

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Your primer is under a good second coat but don't hope for a long term use. I read an old thread about dissolving polystyrene in acetone and dipping lures into this and letting the acetone vaporize leaving a waterproof plastic coating on the wood. I will be getting the pellets from a supplier that has clear, opaque white and a few colors. The proportioning of pellets to acetone will determine the thickness of the coating. I would think multiple thin coatings would be the way to go.

You could then paint with any polystyrene compatible paint and put a final coat of clear over your finished painted lure.

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Thanks guys! you have been very helpful. I'll be ordering some Dicknite's and untill that comes in I'll switch to epoxy and a little heat on the paint first. About the heat, do you bake the lures in a small oven or just use a heat gun? Thanks again this web site is invaluable to anyone wanting to make their own lures.

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I personally use a hair dryer for heat-setting Createx, as do many others, but some do use a heat gun on low. I usually heat-set after each color; there is no particular set time, but with a little experience you'll be able to notice the difference in the look and feel of the paint--I've seen steam leaving the baits before so we're getting them pretty hot, but we're not burning or melting anything either. Good luck Ted!

Dean

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Rookie, I don't use nail polish myself, but if fancy fingernails are within your field of expertise, and you feel that you can add to the subject at "hand" please do so! There might be some lure painters here who need to earn a bit of extra fishing cash painting fingernails in the winter months, so maybe you could even do a tutorial! :yay:

:teef:

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I paint lures for dough. I sell them to Joe. And if the money is right I will paint your wife's toes!! Tater Hog Custom SPA!! Bring your old beat up lures! and your old beat up... I mean wife!!!

COMING TO A STRIP MALL NEAR YOU!!!

Where are motto is... "Were not happy till we get that fungus off your feet and paint on your Creek." :yeah::yes:

The Rookie

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Well there ya go, capitalism is alive and well in Taterville USA! Are we about to begin sharing our fungus bath recipes? I have a pretty good one for Tennessee Shad-tank-itis that requires corn, fire-tending and copper pipe, but it only works internally...but it's guaranteed to make you forget about your ol' lady's skin condition, and it will help her forget about her sore back from throwing that 16 foot cast net all day long!

:eek::teef:

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Dean, but Taters spa doubles as a lure testing facility. What can yours do, other than strip paint?

Dave

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I think this thread has been hijacked by Tater! Ya just have to love his vigor and his penchant for humor! :lol: Perhaps it is just a tad too much of that auto clear!

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Hey Dean, I have a cousin up in Ohio that just got himself for his birthday a 35gal. sti..:whistle: er I mean cooker and he is looking for a good fungus remover recipe. He said he had heard that the right amount of corn could really make your feet happy.

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Hey Dean, I have a cousin up in Ohio that just got himself for his birthday a 35gal. sti..:whistle: er I mean cooker and he is looking for a good fungus remover recipe. He said he had heard that the right amount of corn could really make your feet happy.

35 gal. sti...sti...oh yeah, a Special Tank Installation!! I'll bet that's what Tater has that allows him to do lure testing, bunion soaking, and, uh, er, tonic making! Ted, V-Man, Gator, I think we're on our way to figuring out Tater's business model! Don't fall for his silly "Aw shucks, I'm just a Rookie playing around with paintin' baits and stuff" routine. The guy is dumb like a a fox!!

(I hear that the stoplight in Taterville stays red all the time now, and that the whole town is so hot, you can hold your Createx painted lures out the window on Saturday night for about 10 minutes, and they'll cure perfectly, ready for any kind of clearcoat you want to use, including those with solvents like Dicknite's topcoat, or clear lacquer!)

Dean :teef:

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I'm pretty sure that the Createx paints only need to be heat set when sprayed onto fabrics, ie: t-shirts. As long as the paint is applied in very light coats and has dried fully you should be ok. Delaminating is almost always caused by the paint layers being applied too thickly and insufficient drying between coats. The same applies for Auto Air Colors.

You can of course use warm moving air to speed up the dry times but be careful not to use too much heat or you can also cause delaminating down the line.

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I'm pretty sure that the Createx paints only need to be heat set when sprayed onto fabrics, ie: t-shirts. As long as the paint is applied in very light coats and has dried fully you should be ok. Delaminating is almost always caused by the paint layers being applied too thickly and insufficient drying between coats. The same applies for Auto Air Colors.

You can of course use warm moving air to speed up the dry times but be careful not to use too much heat or you can also cause delaminating down the line.

:eek::eek:Not so!

You can get away with air drying and not heat setting Createx if you use a non-solvent containing clear coat such as E-tex: however you must allow the paint to dry (as much as it will dry without heat) before you can accomplish this, and still you will be leaving moisture in the paint. I washed a Createx-painted t-shirt once that had not been heat-set, and lost nearly all of its color--and i'd had the shirt for several weeks before wearing it. The same is true for lures! Stencils are easily cleaned of months-old Createx because it hasn't been heat-set. You can't do that after heat-setting. Wipe a lure with a damp rag before heat setting and notice how easily the paint comes off--I've done this after a bait has been sitting for weeks, but hasn't been heat set and it still removes with little effort: or heat-set a lure which has been sitting for several weeks, and you can actually see the moisture come out of the lure.

I use a large hair-dryer on high to heat-set my lures, and I take my time to do a thorough job. You can literally see the transformation in the paint, as well as feel it. No delaminating! Heat setting is a step to take to avoid delamination somewhere down the line to remove the excess moisture from the lure before it is sealed with a clearcoat, not something that will cause it, unless you haven't sealed your baits.

I use Dicknite's topcoat to clear my lures. I have zero problems with Dicknite's because I've learned how to use it and how to keep it fresh. The reason I use it is because it is simple to get a water-clear, bubble-free finish, applies easily, keeps my bass lures looking good and well-protected under hard usage, does not delaminate, goes on evenly even over sharp edges without thinning-out, doesn't obscure carving details, and is super-tough while still retaining a bit of flexibility. Without heat setting it first though, Dicknite's will turn Createx into a gooey mess, as will any clearcoats which contain catalyzing solvents.

On the Createx bottle it says that letting it air dry is enough to achieve permanence when used on wood etc. This may have been what mislead you and misleads others when it comes to lure building. But Createx will not achieve any toughness without heat-setting it, which is why 98% percent of us do it. And 100% of us who use an automotive clear, Dicknite's Topcoat, or other moisture-cure urethanes, and solvent catalyzed topcoats, heat-set thoroughly!

Dean :yay:

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Leave it to me to get all technical. LOL Createx is a self-crosslinking paint. In other words, the catalyst is built right into the paint polymer, but isn't initiated until a certain temp is reached. When it is reached, the two molecules react and become one chemical and water resistant molecule.

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Dean, you said,

I have zero problems with Dicknite's because I've learned how to use it and how to keep it fresh.

How about elaborating on that subject. I have sent the e-mail , a couple of days ago ,to Dicknite from the TU add link but haven't gotten any responce. It sounds like some really good stuff if I can get my hands on some.

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As far as getting in touch with Dick Nite. Try giving him a call. He will help you in any way he can. He has a great product and there is a wealth of information on How To Use it on this site.

Dick was also having a problem with email filters tossing his responses into the Spam folders, but I think he got a second email address to resolve the problem.

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Dean, you said,

How about elaborating on that subject. I have sent the e-mail , a couple of days ago ,to Dicknite from the TU add link but haven't gotten any responce. It sounds like some really good stuff if I can get my hands on some.

I did a quick search, and these threads will add to your general knowledge:

Tackleunderground - Search Results

Because Dicknite's is a moisture cure urethane, it needs to be kept in an airtight environment. A metal topped glass salad dressing bottle, or similar is an ideal container because of its large capacity relative to its small opening. A small wine bottle works for the same reason. I use jars, displace the air in the jar with Bloxygen, and seal it tight. I work out of small glass 1/2 oz. jars and seal them airtight the same way immediately after each use.

My good friend David Sullivan (CaptSully) stores his differently by tapping a storage can with a sheet metal screw near the bottom edge of the can, Through usage, the Dicknites in the top of the can will actually skim over, while the product in the bottom of the can remains air and thus, cure free. The sheet metal screw will leak a tiny bit until some Dicknite's cures around the threads, making for a leak-free dispensing tap.

We've posted much on Dicknite's topcoat usage, and preservation. Further searching will yield even more info. Any questions, let us know!!!

Dean :yay:

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Leave it to me to get all technical. LOL Createx is a self-crosslinking paint. In other words, the catalyst is built right into the paint polymer, but isn't initiated until a certain temp is reached. When it is reached, the two molecules react and become one chemical and water resistant molecule.

Yes!!!! Thank You!!! :worship:

I figure there had to be a molecular change for the paint to make that much of a transformation, i.e. becoming waterproof, and solvent resistant.

Your explanation is tantamount to a tutorial for those who use Createx, and the company should have this information in its advertising and its product!!!!

Dean

Ted, As I suppose you've gathered from my previous answer, Yes I use Bloxygen, and it flat works! It goes a long way also, as does Dicknite's topcoat, so considering the mileages and the toughness of the topcoat, I still consider Dicknite's a value for my lures.

Dean

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A little bird told me that I should add my .02, so here goes. As several have said here, Createx MUST be heat cured. Heat each layer. You can see the difference as you heat it and feel the difference after heating. Molecular action, smolecular action...... I don't know beans about such things. I'm just a dumb, old fireman. Admire those of you who have such knowledge. I just know heating each layer will bond it to the previous layers and there will be no delamination. Enough about this.

Now for the top coat. DickNites is #1 in my book. It is harder than anything else I have used and I have used D2T and Etex. DN goes on so smoothly, so clear, so quickly, and there is no mixing. Plenty of working time, too. I know for sure that it bonds to the paint better than anything else I have used. I know this 'cause I have had to strip some baits after clearcoating 'cause I found flaws that I couldn't be satisfied with. Both the D2T and the Etex pealed off easily. However, the DN had to be shaved off with an Xacto knife 'cause it would NOT delaminate. Now before everyone jumps all over me for what I have just said, let me say that this is just my opinion and preference. All you need to do is check out the work of Fatfingers, Tigger, Mark Poulson, BobP, to mention a few. I think some of these guys use DN once in a while, but they also use others also. What I'm really trying to say is simply that DN is the hardest stuff I have used. JMHO.

Also must add that Taterhog's Spa system is actually powered by his squirrel roaster not that st...st...st...st...oh hell, you know what I mean. By the way, Dean I got a couple of really good used radiators behind the garage...........if you're interested.

I think this epistle should satisfy that little bird. If it doesn't.........

David

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