Swimbait HELP please! slow speed problem
15 replies to this topic
Posted 12 December 2008 - 10:48 PM
OK I have been working on a 12 inch triple trout style bait
Double hinged eye screw to eye screw connection
MY PROBLEM is the bait runs killer at a medium to fast retrieve
but does NOTHING on a slow retrieve (THE SPEED I WANTED)
it just wants to go straight with little movement
so i was thinging it could be the hinges being to tight for a slow retrieve I had to pinch them together and one was a little off center.
i was going to replace the eyescrew tomorrow and try again
any hints on smashing the eyescrews together to connect the bait
Wanted to get some feedback
thanks to all
Posted 13 December 2008 - 12:17 AM
Nightbite, I am sure the problem has nothing to do with the hinges.
Pictures might help, but two things that I can think of that might cause your problem are:
1. side profile too symmetrical top tto bottom. Solution, rig up a temporary tow eye slightly higher or lower.
2. nose section too streamlined. Solution, add some bulk to the front edge of the top edge of the body. Use modelling clay for a temporary test.
Keep in mind that swimbaits are vortex driven and will not operate below a minimum speed. This speed depends on the shape design. Here we are all still learning.
I am sure many more ideas will be aired here. I suggest you try as many as possible, starting with the least invasive. Don't forget to report back with your findings.
Posted 13 December 2008 - 10:54 AM
Well like Vodkaman said, it probably has a lot to do with the shape of your bait. If the bait is flat on it's sides then it is getting lost in the vortex, or better yet not creating a vortex to move the other parts.. If you can add some girth to the bait it my work better. The gap or space between the baits parts need to be smaller for slower action retrieve. Try and get away from the eye screws if you can. Hinge or eye screw and pin if possible. Lets see the bait!
Posted 13 December 2008 - 02:44 PM
I have had the same problems and here is what I have found. I know that baits like the TT and BBZ1 have a small center section, but what I have found is that if you make the segments progressively smaller from head to tail you will have better luck. More segments help as well. Also keep as much weight in the front half of the bait as possible. I believe the original TT only actually has weight in the head section. Someone posted an ex-ray of a TT that clearly showed it. Not sure if it was a floater or sinker though.
The problem I am experiencing now, is that I can make two identical baits (or as identical as possible...and I'm usually pretty good), one a sinker and one a floater, and the floater will have a difficult time swimming...especially slow. I am not sure if it is a weight issue, or if my floater is floating just a tad too high. Anyway, good luck.
Posted 13 December 2008 - 05:59 PM
I tried making the joints closer and need to take it for a test spin as for photos i need to get a new camera, hopefully for christmas, Mine was dropped and doesn't work so well / at all. I'll let you know how it goes.
Posted 13 December 2008 - 08:03 PM
How many segments does your 12" bait have?
I went to the 4 section baits after seeing that the original triple trout didn't swim well at slow speeds.
In my 4 piece lures, the head is twice the size of the other sections, which are about the same length, not counting the plastic add-on tail. A 2/1/1/1 ratio. And the ballast, other than a weighted hook hanger in the third section, is all in the head.
I made some 3 piece bluegill/crappie lures that have a 1/1/1 ratio, and they do swim well at slow speeds, but all the ballast, aside from the weighted hook hanger again in the last section, is in the head, too.
If anything, I err on the side of too loose on the joints. I want the smooth flow of water down the sides to be interrupted by the joint, and for the joints to swing really easily.
It may also have to do with how you shape your joints.
I've seen, and own, some swimbaits whose meeting joint faces are almost flat, but I've never tried that.
In the past, I've use a nesting, male-female joint, with the concave face on the back of the sections, and the convex (male) face on the front of the sections. I cut the female joint at 12 1/2 degrees, and make the male joint more pointed, to give the joints more room to move.
The new BBZ 4" shad has reversed joint faces with the concave facing forward, and I'm going to make one like that.
I asked Bill Siemental why he did it that way, and he said that it was the only way he could get the bait to swim at all speeds, which it does great.
Bill Siemental has a forum on his website, www.thebbz.com, and if you go on there and post your questions, he'll answer your questions. He's been making swimbaits forever, and helped develop all the currently popular baits, so he's the guy to ask.
He's house bound right now, waiting for knee surgery, or he may have already had it and be home recuperating, so it's a great time to ask him.
Edited by mark poulson, 13 December 2008 - 08:08 PM.
Posted 13 December 2008 - 08:16 PM
You didn't mention whether the bait had a lip. If it does, changing the lip to one that is wider and/or set at a steeper angle will probably give you more slow speed wiggle.
Posted 13 December 2008 - 09:32 PM
It's a 3 piece lipless floater
ratio on the pieces 2/1/1 and a half
maybe i should add a joint in the tail section,
but i don't want to get ahead of myself and would like to solve this bait the way it is with minor tweaks.
The joints were a nightmare
i cut them and to say the least they didn't come out the way i wanted them to and alot of sanding was involved
i tested it after bring the joints closer to the bait
the first cast was great, after that the eyescrews started getting off center due to twisting and it ran like a turd in the water.
i was thinging of super gluing the eye screws in place and hoping that it swims like it did on the first cast when the eyescrews were straight.
Its so easy to make a bait kind of work LOL
i really think i could catch on it, but it's not what i was originally after.
anyways thanks for all the great input.
Posted 13 December 2008 - 11:18 PM
If the body is cutting the surface, this could greatly interfere with the action, preventing the vortices forming over the back. The lure has to be slightly sub surface.
I found a similar problem when testing lipped lures in a swimming pool. When the lure approached the bottom, the action was lost.
Posted 14 December 2008 - 03:12 PM
I'd suggest epoxy in the holes and on the threads of your screw eyes. It's not just a matter of keeping the action the way it was when you first threw it (which epoxy will do). It's also about keeping water from seeping into the wood and causing the finish to delaminate and the bait to explode.
Posted 14 December 2008 - 04:34 PM
I'm really curious to hear if making the concave edges face forwards will really help with slow speed action. Love to hear some results from experimenting with that concept.
Posted 14 December 2008 - 05:41 PM
Are you referring to the edges of the segments? Like the BBZ Shad and True Tungsten lures. Back part of 1st section points towards tail, and front part of next points towards the head, and so on through the rest of sections?
Edited by Lili Man, 14 December 2008 - 05:42 PM.
Posted 14 December 2008 - 06:33 PM
You guys have inspired me.
I just took apart and stripped down a 4 piece wooden swim bait I made early this year, because the top coat split along an old crack. I had repainted this once already, sanding the old epoxy and painting over it, without stripping it down to bare wood.
In hindsight, I think that was a mistake.
I think I'll take advantage of having to repaint this bait, and play around with making the joints reversed, if I can, like the BBZ shad, and see how it swims.
As I'm sitting here typing, I'm wondering to myself how much of the lure I'll lose by recutting the joints, but, what the heck, I think it's worth a try.
Posted 14 December 2008 - 06:49 PM
I'm VERY curious to hear how your experiment goes!
Posted 15 December 2008 - 05:13 PM
It's 2:00 in the afternoon, pouring rain, and 40+ degrees right now, and I'm about to go out to my unheated garage to "whip up" a reversed joint lure.
I thought about it, and it's going to be easier to just make a new one than to try to rework the old one.
So the new one will be out of PVC, and will be the same body design and paint scheme as the last 7" lures I made. That way, I think I'll have a true comparison so I can see what, if any, difference the reversed joints make.