mark poulson

Reverse joint test results

45 posts in this topic

I primed the three baits I made with reversed joints white, so I could actually see them this time, and took them, along with a floater of the same design but with conventional joints, for a test swim at the local pond.

Now that I could see them, it's clear that the reverse joints swim at slower speeds and much more fluidly overall. Very snake like, and swims even at almost a snail's pace. Still turns almost 180 degrees when I stopped the retrieve.

I think this is how I'm going to make all my baits from now on.

I did something different with these baits.

Instead of drilling and notching relief slots for the screw eyes in the section with the pin, I drilled over sized holes into the joint faces, and kind of reamed them to make them a little wider by rocking the piece from side to side. Not enough to get near the edge of the piece, but enough to give me some room for the hinge screw eye to really move back and forth.

The result was a nicer face on the lure, since there is no visible slot.

And it turned out to be less work, too. It is a little more tricky, in that I had to be careful not to drill too deep and into my hook holder and ballast holes (I actually did that on two of them) but even with the extra care it was still easier than the slots.

I don't think the missing hinge slots affected the swimming action, one way or the other, but I don't feel like making a conventional bait with the relief hole system to test that out right now. Too lazy. :lolhuh:

I'm going to paint them tomorrow, so I'll find out how hard it is to coat the joint faces with epoxy. I kind of think it won't be hard. Since the lures are made of PVC, if the epoxy doesn't go all the way into the hinge relief holes, it's no big deal.

All in all, a success so far.

Once I get them finished, I'll post some pics in the gallery, including the hinge relief holes.

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Hey, Mark, I'm not sure which way is "reverse" and which is "?forward?". I'm assuming reverse means that the following segment is concave and the leading segment convex so the following segment catches more water when moving?

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Seems like the holes you are describing would be fine so long as they are big enough to allow for lateral movement.

Jed

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BobP,

The reverse joint does have the convex on the back of the segments, and the concave on the front.

I'm sure there are those devilish vortexes at work. :wink:

Seriously, the concave faces must reach out and grab the water every time the lure wiggles, like when you put your hand out of the car window.

Riverman,

You're right. I reamed the holes side to side to make sure there was room. I used 1 1/4" .72 guage screw eyes. I wanted to use the .92 eyes, but the lure body is only 3/4" wide, and I'm afraid to ream them that much. But......I'm still pondering. If I'm really careful.......:lol:

Captsully,

They look good. As soon as I paint and top coat them, I'll post some pics.

Man, I love it when a plan comes together. :lolhuh:

Edited by mark poulson

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@ mark poulson

Hi , Mark ,

thanks for sharing your experiences with that different method , I'm really eager to see some (detail)pictures , after you're done;) !

greetz:yay: , Dieter

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Mark, I'm glad the expiriment worked out well Thanks for putting in the time and reporting back. Speaking of the hinge slots, I started to reccomend that method to you a while back after seeing some of your last baits but I didn't want to seem critical and rub you the wrong way. The baits looked really really good and those slots seem to look like an eyesore as I feel they do on all baits with that style of hinge. I tried it myself a while back on a few baits with 100% positive results. It would be the way I would do all my baits if I didn't like the door hinge method so much. The only problem I can see would be with the clear. It wasn't a problem for me though since I switched to DN's.

TJ

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Mark,

Well done my friend. I was pretty sure that you would have that kind of outcome, regarding the concave and convex joints. The pin hinge hole is what I have been doing for some time now, with some success. I am glad it is working out for you. As far as the joints are concerned with the new edges, the only thing I do not like about it, is the space it creates between each segment. Like the True Tungsten lures and the BBZ Shad, they both have the same detail and have major viewing gaps between there sections. All in all, I am sure it does not matter that much to the fish. But if the saying is true...."That the lure catches the fisherman, not the fish." It really is just an opinion....and we know what that means....just like an :censored:, we alll have them.:lolhuh:

Edited by Lili Man

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Thanks to all for the kind words. It was fun to do, and I wound up with three dynamite lures.

Dieter,

Thanks. It's fun when you find a new method that actually works, and is easier/faster at the same time.

Lure making scratches three major itches for me.

Problem solving, the physical building process, and having lures to fish with.

A perfect trifecta.

TJ,

I wasn't comfortable doing the holes until I switched to PVC. I was always afraid I'd blow out the side of the lure with wood, since it grabs the drill bit sometimes when I lean it to widen the holes.

Plus, I was really worried about sealing the insides of the holes. In hindsight, the Minwax Wood Hardener that I soak wood parts in would probably have been more than enough, but, with PVC, I'm really confident there will be no waterproofing issues.

And, as far as rubbing me the wrong way, no worries. The slots are an eyesore. The only reason I used them is that the fish are dumber that the fisherman (I hope) and they worked.

I can't imagine the amount of time involved in carving the hinges on you newest gallery post, the bass lure. :worship:

Lili Man,

I've found that jointed swimbaits are seldom straight for enough time to let the joint spaces be a problem. If anything, since I let my paint job extend into the joints, I think the open/close joint movement is another attracting/triggering device.

And the reversed joint swims so well, even at slow speeds, I doubt the bass will see any more that a yummy meal.

I noticed someone, I think it was Jeep, paints the insides of his joints red as an additional attracting/triggering device. I tried it on one lure, and wasn't happy with it, but I fish super clear and highly pressured lakes. I'm sure it would be dynamite in off colored water, or on the ocean.

I do try to get glitter into the joints, so they flash as they move.

As for "Action catches the fish, paint jobs catches the fisherman" as far as I'm concerned, that's gospel.

My 24 year old son is down for the weekend from Santa Cruz for our family Chanukah parties, and I quoted him that saying, word for word, as he was checking out my latest swimbait.

I do the paint jobs, which take 1/2 of the building time, for myself, as a challenge to see how nice I can make them, and to hear the oohs and aahs from my friends when I show them.

The fish really don't care.

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Thanks for the kudos Mark. The hinges are not carved though. I may have to put together a little tutorial on how I do it sometime when I get a chance. As far as your method, I just drilled a hole for the eye to fit in and then used a chainsaw sharpening stone in my dremel to open the hole up like it needed it to be. It worked pretty well.

TJ

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I'm excited to see the photos and some video now Mark. Thanks again for posting your results. :yay:

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Photos I can do. Video is a little beyond me. I'm analog.

"If it doesn't work, get a bigger hammer.

If it can't be done with a skilsaw, it can't be done."

That kind of analog. :lol:

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Photos I can do. Video is a little beyond me. I'm analog.

"If it doesn't work, get a bigger hammer.

If it can't be done with a skilsaw, it can't be done."

That kind of analog. :lol:

Technology is your friend Mark! lol

Have a Merry Christmas dude!

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Thanks.

And a Merry Christmas to you, too.

Sometimes I feel like that guy in I Robot, who's paranoid about machines, but who's totally integrated into them, too. Computers are everywhere in my life. When my youngest leaves for college in a few years, I'll be lost. :lol:

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Sorry it's taking so long.

They're hanging in the garage, with a white base coat on them, waiting for me to come back out to play.

I've been too busy, and it's been too cold, to work on them any more. The spirit is willing, but the body is weak. :lol:

I'm going fishing today, but I hope to have them painted tomorrow, and maybe the first coat of epoxy.

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Hi Mark,

I'm anxious to see some photos of your new design. Do you have any to share yet?

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Sorry for the delays.

I can't access my photo program to download the photos and post them.

My IT person, my brother-in-law, came over last week and "cleaned up" my computer. Now I can't get into my computer at all!!! :censored:

And he's home with the flu, so I can't get a service call from him.

I'm waiting for him to recover.

I'm on another computer now, answering my emails, but I won't be able to post photos until he's "cured".

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Good luck for you , Mark , I am anxious about that might happen to me one day :huh::(!

Greetz :yay:, Dieter

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Dieter,

There is a new computer threat, called a Trojan Horse, going around the internet now. This latest version piggy backs on emails, so, when you go to a site included in an email, it accesses your computer. Like if I emailed you and said "Go to www.funfishing.com" If the Trojan Horse had infected funfishing, it would load onto your computer if you clicked on the site address.

If you get an email saying "You have a response to your post" delete it, and go to the site directly, not by the email contact.

It's a bear to remove, so it's better to be cautious.

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@ mark poulson

Thanks , Mark

I usually do this , but on one particular German site I use the linking via Email , so I will stop doing this as well and type it in again after deleting the mail .

I have ever bbeen cautious about unknown senders of Emails , anyway , don't open them up !

greetz:yay: , Dieter

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This is my first year using a Mac and I'll never go back to a pc!

Thanks for the warning though Mark.

I look forward to seeing the photos when you're able to post them.

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I finally posted the photos in the gallery.

I had to tweak the joints to get them to swim well.

In hindsight, I think it's because I reversed everything, so the pivot point is in the back of each section, instead of the front.

This makes for a longer arch for each section when they swing side to side, and actually dampens the action.

I'm going to make one with reversed joints but with the screw eyes mounted in the rear face of the joints, like in the conventional lures, to see if this helps.

Sorry this took so long to post. I just rescued my computer.

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Mark,

Nice work man! I guess I was confused!!!!

Ok....maybe it's me, but I guess I thought this was about something different. Did not think it was literally about reversing the eye hooks and pins from traditional locations. I was under the impression this thread was about the concave vs convex angles in a joint. Such as the way that the BBZ - Shad and the True T baits are made. Where the joints face each other like this ..... >-)-(- > not like I have and many others have been doing it like this ..... >-)-)- >

>- = Tail

-> = Head

Not to discount anything that was discussed or learned here regarding this Thread....Just my Humble Opinion!!

Lili

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