Snax Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Hey gang, I'm interested in designing some baits that will be exact replicas of real fish initially before I create the various segments for swimbaits etc. What is the best and still affordable way to mold a dead fish to create a mold for prototyping? Has anyone actually done it and how did it turn out? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redg8r Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 I'd go with alginate, it cures quick & captures detail like RTV. You won't have to worry about anything on the baitfish reacting with the alginate. After you have the alginate negative, cast a plaster positive from that. Then you can tweak the plaster once it dries & then cast a final silicone negative. Pay attention to the cure times, the alginate I use is dental alginate and sets off in 30 seconds with warm water. Ice cold water helps slow the cure. Even better......freeze the baitfish first to make it easier to work with. There's a thread going on about alginate right now: http://www.tackleunderground.com/forum/hard-baits/15528-new-possible-molding-material.html Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snax Posted December 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 Thanks so much for the reply. I did see that thread and wondered if anyone has used it to mold a real fish before. I'll have to check into that stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 I have toyed with this idea over the yrs too but never got around to it. I always thought I would freeze the critter first and then mold it. Smoothon has some info on their site about taxidermy so you might look there. Ultimately you may find that carving a prototype of your piece is more accurate altho some recent bass baits look to me like they were made from a real fish. Jed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 Bondo followed by fiberglass wool/resin for strength. I have come across it several times on the web. The pectoral and pelvic fins are generally removed. The fish is embedded in medium half way like typically observed for cranks or soft plastics and then the bondo body filler painted over the fish. Let set and then hit with resin and fiberglass. This will give you longer lasting mold. I am sure someone has a link. I lost all mine when my computer crashed months ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KcDano Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 Crawchuck, had attemped to mold a fish using a quicksetting drywall compound and the fish stuck to the mold. I think using a molding material that is quick setting and doesn't pull moisture from the specimen would probally yield the best results. As Travis mentions bondo, which some brands (older formulas) will draw moisture. However if one would use the resin first, and then bondo. I can't see why it would't work> Taking care not to mix too much hardener resulting in a significant amount of heat generated during the curing.Which could distort or degrade the fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snax Posted January 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 I just realized that you can buy fish blanks for taxidermy purposes. As long as the fish is three dimensional and is in a straight position I could use one of those to create the RTV mold. What I want to do is to have the actual fish shape made from Featherlite and then I can go about using the bodies to experiment with joint placement, weighting etc with an anatomically correct shape. I'll have to see where I can pick up some bodies here in Canada that are reasonably priced and the appropriate size for what I need. I don't imagine that there's a huge demand for 10" Walleye mounts! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 I looked at that too over the years Mike. What I found is the taxidermy specimens generally have either a left or right turn which won't work for us. The other thing is their fins are really thin so you can't use them either. In the end, I still think building your own proto will be the best because you can set the species you want, the width, length, etc. Jed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downriver Tackle Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 Crawchuck, had attemped to mold a fish using a quicksetting drywall compound and the fish stuck to the mold. I think using a molding material that is quick setting and doesn't pull moisture from the specimen would probally yield the best results. As Travis mentions bondo, which some brands (older formulas) will draw moisture. However if one would use the resin first, and then bondo. I can't see why it would't work> Taking care not to mix too much hardener resulting in a significant amount of heat generated during the curing.Which could distort or degrade the fish. I'd bet that if you misted some mold release or silicone on it first, you'd eliminate the sticking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodkaman Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 (edited) This is how I would do it. Visit to the plumbers section of the hardware store, buy some plastic pipe of a suitable diameter. Split the pipe down the middle, table saw would make light work of this. Tape the two halves together with some of Rookies duck tape. Plug the bottom by pressing the tube into a flat slab of soft modelling clay. Hang the fish vertically, nose up, by a thread (bottom lip), inside the tube. Mark the tube to indicate the top and bottom centrelines of the fish. Very quickly, mix the alginate and fill the tube, bearing in mind, you only have seconds. A few practise runs will inevitably be required to get a feel for the material. Cut the tape down one seam and remove the fishy mold from the pipe, not forgetting to transfer the c/l to the alginate cast. With a sharp box cutter or scalpel, make a single cut around the fish. Split the mold and remove the fish. No need to be too tidy, as the imperfections will act as mold location. Clean any debris from the mold. Cut a pour hole. Re-assemble the two mold halves into the pipe. And pour the PoP. With care, it should be possible to get two or three plaster casts from the mold, but all has to be done within a few hours. This method is based loosely on the first tutorial I ever read on TU, I think it was entitled slip mold, excellent tutorial. I have actually used this method for making a copy of a lure body carving, except I used a mug in place of the pipe. It worked just fine. Dave Edited January 1, 2009 by Vodkaman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snax Posted January 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 Thanks so much for the input guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Mac Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 If you can get your hands on some liquid nitrogen I think it would be best to "flash freeze" the fish first to provide the freshest detail. In order to keep your fish straight (and prevent degredation) you should also euthanize first. Believe it or not, seltzer water can be used for euthanasia. However, I don't know the correct mix of seltzer water to h2o. My advice is to pour a little in a 5 gal bucket over the matter of 3 minute intervals until the fish looses its ability to regulate its air bladder. If you somehow have access to MS222 (found in aquaculture labs) this is prefered but very $$$. Either way, once the fish is euthanized you have a few minutes to figure out how to flashs freeze the fish w/out it flopping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snax Posted January 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 I've just ordered a fish blank from a taxidermy supplier and I'll be using it for now to experiment. The blank was molded from a real fish so it will save me the trouble. The size was what I wanted too. I'll be posting the results once I have tinkered with it. Thanks again to all who posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeep Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 why not use silicone for the mold? This stuff doesn't stick to anything except silicone, so as long your fish doesn't have (leaking..) breast implants it should work right...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snax Posted January 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 Hmmm....If the fish is from L.A. it might have implants! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 Hmmm....If the fish is from L.A. it might have implants! I'm sure you could sue the implant manuf. and retire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR KNOW IT ALL KIND OF Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 My questions is if your using a real fish to mold the bait.. are you going to have a real artist paint it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lure--Prof Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Rookie, maybe he could get a hold of the same artist that Tater uses! I'm still mulling over euthanizing a gizzard shad...do NOT let this info make it to some of these educated predators we fish for, I think some of them would be smart enough to use it! Dean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snax Posted January 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2009 My questions is if your using a real fish to mold the bait.. are you going to have a real artist paint it? Since you're having a good laugh about my artistic abilities I thought I'd share a recent airbrushed portrait I was commissioned to do by my girlfriends office... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Is that Bill and Hillary? I'm just jealous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snax Posted January 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Ha,ha! No Mark, it's my girlfriend's boss and his wife. The painting was an office gift to them. I only posted it in response to the smart @ss comment by Rookie. So Rookie, let's see your artistic abilities then since you enjoyed taking a dig at me for no reason. Put up or shut up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark poulson Posted January 9, 2009 Report Share Posted January 9, 2009 Probably a better choice of subject. I'd settle for you motor cycle helmet painting skills. Ha,ha! No Mark, it's my girlfriend's boss and his wife. The painting was an office gift to them. I only posted it in response to the smart @ss comment by Rookie.So Rookie, let's see your artistic abilities then since you enjoyed taking a dig at me for no reason. Put up or shut up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egreen cobra Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 (edited) I've used OOMOO to mold shiners in the past, I've yet to perfect it. I was doing two piece molds the main issue I was having was that the side of the bait exposed to air would flatten out and the bait would have a normal side and a flattened side. I believe that freezing the bait would help. I also think that doing a slip mold/clam mold would be the way to go. I came across a taxidermy tutorial that explained a similar way of doing it with dental alginate and then casting a positive. I've picked up some alginate and just need to find a poor shiner to sacrifice... Edited January 18, 2009 by egreen cobra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverMan Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 I think shiners would be one of the most difficult to mold. You can't hardly keep them on a hook because they are so soft and they are the first to die if held in a bucket. RM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egreen cobra Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 I think shiners would be one of the most difficult to mold. You can't hardly keep them on a hook because they are so soft and they are the first to die if held in a bucket. RM The shiners down here are a bit sturdier, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.JPG)