, Jan 06 2009 09:24 AM
8 replies to this topic
Posted 06 January 2009 - 09:24 AM
Think there might be a thread or two around this subject but couldn't find them (don't know what words should I use for the search engine
I want to build a floating , deep diving lure , but I want also this lure to work when I stop it and it rise towards the surface. Initially I thought that the lip should be concave (as over here http://www.tackleund...lip-former.html
) for helping the lure to have a rolling (move its sides) effect while it rises. My problem comes when I want to design the body and I was thinking that a large back and a narrow belly will be the best choice. But I want to see if anyone got a maximum rising action as a sum between a particularly lip shape and a body shape
Edited by pikeman, 06 January 2009 - 09:27 AM.
Posted 06 January 2009 - 01:39 PM
“Pikeman”- I think if I was going to use the lip to do this , I would be turning the concave lip over (concave down) and maybe it would happen, but then you would not achieve the depth. With the concave UP on my 3” lures, I was getting 14-15' consistently when I had my old boat - I now have a GPS, and have come to realise I was trolling at 2-3mph, and giving unrealistic depths, also, sometimes may be a bit quick for trout, BUT a concave certainly gives you more depth for lip area, so maybe on a rising lure it would drag the nose down to a more vertical rise!!.
Rather than use the lip to achieve this, maybe try tapering the lure body (top to bottom). As you would realise, ballast would be critical, and there would be a fine line between too much and too little.
Before everyone starts 'poo pooing' - This is just a hunch/theory, and I have never tried it, so if you do, keep us posted. Good luck with it. pete
Posted 06 January 2009 - 02:00 PM
The same forces that are in action during the retrieval, to generate the lures action, are working when the lure sinks or rises. The problem is still the speed. If too slow, the action will not happen.
I suggest fill a 5 gal bucket and try some of your existing lures. Add some lead to the belly hook to vary the speed and make notes.
Rough out a quick body and some lips, as described by Haz (good post Pete), add some weight and test. If you glue the lips in with a silicon glue or rubber glue, you can quickly change the lips and do the next test.
Put some measure marks on the bucket and time the rise rates, make notes. Collect all the information and post it here, so we can all learn something new and interesting.
As for the concave/convex/flat issue, I experimented with this a while back, but cannot remember the results. I did not build anything, I just moved a spoon and a knife up and down in the bucket. This simple experiment will give you some ideas straight away, without having to do any more than fill a bucket and get your hands wet.
Good luck with this project and I look forward to reading your findings in a thread.
Posted 08 January 2009 - 04:38 AM
I was looking at this particular lure , does anyone from the musky boys community ever used it :http://www.vlasenko....an/0918-r02.jpg
it is called Zalt, used for pike fishing and it has an interesting shape especially it's back
This project also has as target the pike, a lure that goes down , and vibrates as it rises too
Also I have in mind to try another shape with a concavity on the head as this one from Rapala :http://www.okonek.co...Rap_Rattlin.jpg
and o concave lip continuing the shape from the head ... think the water filled bucket will be my home for this project
it is all concave (back+lip) vs all convex
Edited by pikeman, 08 January 2009 - 04:46 AM.
Posted 08 January 2009 - 04:54 AM
The "Zalt" is a famous Swedish lure , that obviously has quite a large fan community amongst European pike anglers .
As far as I am concerned , they are available in just a few sizes and in floating and sinking versions .
The "Zalt" does not wiggle at a high frequency , but comes lazily rolling and tailshaking back in .
Best way fishing them is making twitches with the rod , the lure would then break out sideward , sending out a certain flash with its belly , almost corkscrewing , but thus not overturning .
Watched this on a DVD before , for some reason I don't belong to the fans of this one , though I have 2 or 3 knock-offs:huh:!
greetz , diemai
Posted 08 January 2009 - 05:00 AM
Allright , here is their link , English version should be available ! Start
greetz , diemai
Posted 08 January 2009 - 05:51 AM
You can see how that 'Zalt' would be balanced on the rise, with the front and rear lip, very cunning design, and from what Diemai says, sounds like it has the same characteristics as a 'flatfish'. I have also seen pictures of that Rapala with the tunnel through the head, but never seen in the flesh, very radical, and would be interesting to see in the water.pete
Posted 08 January 2009 - 08:31 AM
With my balsa cranks, faster rise=more wiggle. I'm not sure how that will work with higher density material.
Posted 08 January 2009 - 08:54 AM
@ benton B
Lures made of a denser kinda wood wiggle more sluggish than lookalikes made of balsa or similar lighter material .
Also heavily weighted lightwood lures act more sluggish , found out about this when I first purchased the "Rapala Super Shad Rap" sinking versions , which were new in maybe 2005 .
These are exactly same shape and material(Balsa)like the famous floating "Super Shad Rap" , but are about 3/4's more in weight .
Well , whereas the floating version starts to wiggle instantly as you start the retrieve , the sinking version needs a certain retrieve distance to "kick" to work , about 3 to 4 feet !
Also the wiggle is not as pronounced and of slightly lower frequency .
Roughly the "Zalt" acts like a "Flatfish" , same kind of moves , but at a much lower frequency .
When retrieving a "Flatfish" , the rod tip would almost vibrate , with a steady retieve of a "Zalt" it would only swing up and down a bit periodically .
greetz , diemai