"Craters" in Dick Nite finish!
24 replies to this topic
Posted 14 January 2009 - 04:50 PM
Hey guys, I need some help-
I am making some thin blade dodgers for trout and kokanee fishing. They are a stainless steel blade about 4/5" long. Usually I just use some WTP prism tapes to decorate them, but this time I painted them with some createx paints. They came out awesome, but when I put the DN top coat on many little craters appeared on the surface. When I first sprayed it on it came together real nice and glossy, but then after a few minutes it started to make the craters. :eek:All of them but one did this. I have used DN on my lures over createx paints with no problems and even on straight nicklel blades. Anyone have this happen and have a remedy for me? Thanks in advance for any help you can give-
Posted 14 January 2009 - 05:09 PM
My guess is that somehow you got something on the blades that is preventing adhesion. This might be as simple as oil from your fingers. Clean the surface of them thoroughly with a paper towel and rubbing alcohol and try spraying over the top of them.
Posted 14 January 2009 - 05:30 PM
Yep, surface contamination is your culprit. With some top coats, even having them near anything with silicone can cause the fish eyes (craters) to appear.
Posted 14 January 2009 - 06:21 PM
Did you heat set the paint?
From what I have read, heat setting createx paints makes a difference with the top coat.
Posted 14 January 2009 - 06:26 PM
It should only effect the durability of the paint if it's not been heat set. The fish eyes would be from solvent Plaster of Paris or surface contamination in my experience and from what I've read on airbrushing forums.
Posted 14 January 2009 - 09:14 PM
Your specific description sounds like maybe you thinned the DN with solvent and it prevented the DN from forming a continuous film as it flashed off the surface. If so, try dipping them in straight DN - it's formulated for that, after all. I've done a few spoons dressed with WTP and acrylic latex like that - dip'em and hang'em - and they turned out fine.
Edited by BobP, 14 January 2009 - 09:18 PM.
Posted 14 January 2009 - 10:54 PM
Thanks for all the tips. This site is the goods! As far as contamination, I went straight from paint to top coat, so they were never handled. I didn't think the DN, so that wasn't a possibility either. What do you guys think about maybe the createx wasn't completely dry? Would that do it? I did not heat set it, and it is cool back here right now. maybe it still had some moisture to it.
I have never tried dipping stuff in DN. Does it leaf a drip at the bottom when you hang the lure? Do you have to tend to that before it dries? I am interested...what kind of a container do you use..something tall and narrow I assume.
Thanks again for all the help. I really appreciate this website!
Snax, those eyes are awesome! I am going to need to order some more, can you PM me and let me know the info again?
Posted 14 January 2009 - 11:26 PM
Are you spraying any differently than before? Heavier coats? Cold surface? Just some possibilities........but it really sounds to me like there's contamination in there somewhere. Is there any DN in the bottom of the craters? or did it completely pull away and leae the paint uncovered? Possibly the createx not being completely dry. When your'e spraying, as long as you keep the coats light there's no need to heatset, but you still need it dry of course.
Maybe there was something on the metal that bled through the paint?
You could try a couple more lightly misted coats followed by a couple heavier ones to see if it will level out over the craters. I always thin it, BTW, not a whole lot but for me it really improves the finish if it has a couple extra minutes of being fluid.
As far as contamination, it can sometimes only take a few specks of dust to ruin a coat.
Edited by clamboni, 14 January 2009 - 11:28 PM.
Posted 15 January 2009 - 01:48 AM
DN is thin enough for the excess to drip off a spoon within a minute. I haven't seen any hanging drips on mine. Yeah, you have to have a container deeper than the lure is long:)
If you've been using DN, you probably already know its handling and storage quirks. Dipping makes them more important to observe. Don't let DN drip back into the DN container. If you use DN on an "occasional basis" it will often begin to cure when the container is about half full because too much air stays in the container when it's sealed. I'm trying something that Dean recommended, i.e. Bloxygen to stop that. It's an aerosol can of argon/nitrogen gas you spray into the container just before you seal it again. The gas prevents air from getting to the surface of the DN. So far, so good after a couple of months using the stuff. Bloxygen has a website where you can order. I like dipping becaue it gives even coverage and it's FAST FAST FAST.
Posted 15 January 2009 - 06:02 AM
If you didn't heat set it, and it's cool, I just about guarantee that is your problem. Residual solvent left in the Createx.
Posted 20 January 2009 - 12:17 PM
Thanks for all the help. I duplicated what I had done the day before only heat set the paint thoroughly and warmed everything up. Its cold out here in California..68 degree high yesterday and 54 last night...chilly! And if we don't get any rain in the next few months, all this lure building is for not cuz there won't be any water in our lakes anyway!
I digress...the DN top coat went on very nice and smooth. I was just rushing things I suppose.
I am using the Bloxygen and it works great, thanks for that tip. I am going to try and find a container that will allow me to dip some lures and some dodgers and see how they come out. I like the FAST, FAST, FAST part!
Is anyone using DN on striper or bluefish lures? I am still using D2T since it is so rock-hard, but if I could switch to DN it would sure be faster! I just don't know how it will compare and hold up!
Thanks again for all the hellp-
Posted 20 January 2009 - 01:49 PM
After removing finish from several lures coated with D2T and Dick Nite, my opinion is the Dick Nite is tougher. It adheres better to acrylic paint and has a slick finish that is more resistant to hook rash. Is it quicker? Depends on how you measure - time of actual work on the bait or time waiting around for finish to harden. DN is faster to apply if you dip lures but it's much slower to completely cure (about a week) compared to epoxies (about 24 hrs). The Dick Nite lure can be handled in 4-5 hours, seems hard in 24 hrs, but the moisture cure takes days to complete and it's what makes Dick Nite really tough. On a saltwater bait, I'd plan on 3 dips, each spaced 24 hrs apart, followed by a week or two to fully cure out. If you rush the dips, you can get wrinkling and bubbles ruining the finish. But with 3 fully cured dips, I'd put Dick Nite up against any clearcoat, factory baits included.
Posted 21 January 2009 - 09:08 AM
NOTHING is bluefish or striper proof. But I've fished a few lures on the NJ shore and caught some decent sized specimens of both, on plugs coated with DN and D2T. The Dn holds up better. There's definitely toothmarks and gouges in it but I'm happy with the way they looked after the fish I caught on them. Like Bob said, not even factory paintjobs are going to stand a chance against those fish. I also use a lot of smaller lures and don't lay it on that thick, maybe 6-7 lightly sprayed coats.
If you start dipping, which is very attractive due to the speed of it, just know that it will fill in some fine detail in the bait. It doesn't level out over it like Devcon will, but it does fill in more than when you're spraying it. Don't know if that matters to you or not.
Edited by clamboni, 21 January 2009 - 09:10 AM.
Posted 21 January 2009 - 10:15 AM
Yes, what BobP and Clamboni said. I have used as many as 6 brushed coats on several of my own lures over several weeks, just to see how it would do, and I had excellent results. I knocked off the gloss with 1500, and wiped with alcohol and a tack cloth between thin coats, and they are beauties, the clear has depth and is bubble free, and the baits are very, very tough.
Posted 22 January 2009 - 01:27 PM
I would sure like to try some Bloxygen. I will not open another can of Dick Nites until I have some remedy for loosing so much of it to the air.
I've has a terrible time trying to get it. My first order was cancelled after about 2 months and after I had paid via Paypal, but I ordered again in December, but still haven't received it.
Do they not like to sell in small quantities? What has your experience been in getting it? Is there another supply source?
Posted 22 January 2009 - 04:28 PM
I ordered mine from a rod-building supply place in PA called Golden Witch. BobP bought some from another dealer somewhere else, and I think he paid less than I. He did a Google Search and found his supplier...I may have bookmarked it, and if I did, I'll be back with it, if Bob doesn't get here first. http://woodworker.co...-bin/search.exe Where Bob bought his I think. And this is where I bought mine, along with some nice 1/4" oxhair brushes for applying Dicknite's.
Edited by Dean McClain, 22 January 2009 - 04:40 PM.
Posted 26 January 2009 - 09:34 AM
I believe that this thread answers some questions that are currently being asked in another Dicknite's thread. May I remind everyone one more time; If you're using Createx you must Heat-set Thoroughly!!!!!
Posted 26 January 2009 - 12:06 PM
Yes, Excellent information here! Just the kind of hands on feedback I was seeking... Makes me wonder why I've been away from this place so long!!
So what supplier has been the best to deal with on ordering and shipping in a timely manner at a decent cost?
Posted 26 January 2009 - 12:46 PM
Ii seems as though i remember Bob paying a little less than I did for his Bloxygen, and we both received ours in a timely matter...I know I did--I assume that's what you're asking--it lasts a long time, but there's no way to tell how much is left in the can, as a new full can feels like it is empty.