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D2T disaster "help"
19 replies to this topic
Posted 21 January 2009 - 04:49 PM
I was clear coating my first airbrush paint job w/ 30 min. d2t in the garage, about 55-60 degrees & it set up in about 10 minutes. I rushed in the house w/ a hair dryer & fired up the oven to broil, but it was to late. I ended up w/ large ripples/waves on my lure. I know, welcome to the club. My question is, can I sand down my lumpy lure after it dries & coat it again? "WOW this one hurts". Thanks, Tim.
Posted 21 January 2009 - 04:59 PM
sometimes you can take a hair dryer to the bait and get it hot and get the extra epoxy off.. but normally that only works in the first 15 or 20 mins... sometimes even less. You could sand it down and repaint it. but if its not worth much.. I would junk it and start over.. if you made the bait out of wood others might have a better idea on how to get epoxy off.... It also sounds like your using too much epoxy. Remember, thinner is better not thicker. One of the reason I switched to a mositure cure clear coat was so I could spary my baits. But epoxy has it's place for most hobby guys. Dean has lots and lots of experience using Dick Nites with paint brushes. He is the best to ask for this kind of advice.
If you still want to use epoxy. Tip.
Heat the lure up with a hair dryer first.
Then mix your epoxy. It will go on the bait thinner and make it easier to spread. Try and cover the bait good then take the hair dryer to it to get rid of bubbles and remove the extra epoxy on the bait.. You dont want to hurt the action. THINNER IS BETTER!!!!
Posted 21 January 2009 - 05:01 PM
Welcome to the world of D2t
You have to work fast start at the top and work down I normally coat a 6" swimbait in 3 minutes and then it seams like I am pushing it. To answer your ??? yes lightly sand the high spots and be careful to not go thru the thin spots , then re coat and go fast...
Posted 21 January 2009 - 07:06 PM
Thanks for the info guys. Sad to say it was beyond repair. I can't even begin to think how many hours I had into that one.
Hey rookie, what brand of moisture cure clear coat do you use, if you don't mind me asking. If not I understand. I'm building PVC, lipless swimbaits w/ screw eye & hinge pin joint. I use Createx & Auto Borne paint. I can't get any D2T in the joints & I think a spray clear coat would work better. Thanks, Tim.
Posted 21 January 2009 - 10:45 PM
Applying heat to epoxy softens it for a few seconds but in the end it just makes it cure faster. Baking it makes it cure REALLY fast. You have about 3 mins after mixing D2T to get it brushed on. You can extend that to maybe 5 mins by thinning it with a few drops of denatured alcohol. Good news is you will be able to peel the epoxy off the lure tomorrow. Bad news is peeling will take off the paint too.
You can spray thinned Dick Nite Lurecoat, a moisture cured polyurethane. Read up on it thoroughly before ordering any.
Posted 22 January 2009 - 08:28 AM
For longer working time, you can switch to a different type of epoxy.
D2T is a glue. It cures out quickly, and is very hard. It is also very brittle, prone to cracking and flaking off in large chips if you hit a rock with a wooden lure. It also yellows from sunlight over time, since it doesn't have any ultra violet blockers.
Envirotex Lite, and Nu Lustre 55, the two I'm familiar with, are decoupage epoxies, meant for surface coating.
They are a different formulation, and take longer to set. They are designed to self level or pool on the surface they coat. That's why you need a drying wheel of some kind to turn the lure after it's coated so the epoxy doesn't run and sag.
Decoupage epoxy is more flexible, because it is designed to spread over larger surfaces which are subject to expansion and contraction, like table tops.
It can be applied to a flat surface with some kind of an edge form in relatively thick coats, like 1/8" thick, but for lures you need thinner coats to keep it from sagging, so I usually use at least two coats.
The Nu Lustre 55 is available in a UV blocker formula.
I've had sags from time to time, when I've put too much on, and have been able to take them down after they cure out with a fine file, and then 400 grit wet and dry sand paper. The second coat of epoxy will bring the shine back to the sanded areas and make them transparent again.
Edited by mark poulson, 22 January 2009 - 08:33 AM.
Posted 22 January 2009 - 11:41 AM
Thanks for the tips & the info on the D2T & other clearcoats. Yesterday was a disaster, but looking back I've learned alot more from making mistakes than I ever thought was possible. I am realizing how you guys get to the level your at w/ lots of homework and practice. Can you believe I had over 80 hours in that bluegill prototype. It even had a seatbelt strap hinge system, that I've been working on for along time. Oh welll, moving on to my lipless version, now thats a challenge. Thanks again to all that have helped, Tim.
Posted 22 January 2009 - 01:35 PM
Whenever my father got pissed at me for a screwup, he'd ask, "Do you have to learn everything the hard way?"
As I've grown older, I've come to realize that we all learn more from our mistakes than from our successes. Maybe that's why we make so many.
I tell all the new kids who come to work for me, and start trying to do things their way, instead of mine, that it's not that I'm the world's best carpenter, it's that I've already made most of the mistakes. And I can't afford to let them learn by their own mistakes on company time.
The guys on this site have really shortened the learning curve for me, but I still continue with my own version of education, one mistake at a time.
Edited by mark poulson, 22 January 2009 - 01:36 PM.
Posted 26 January 2009 - 07:29 PM
I am a "Hobby Guy". And, I have made a few crankbaits in my time. Some people on this site know me. The old guys here will tell you about me and Devcon. So let me just tell you how it is. Devcon is the best that you can use. Don't worry about production, worry about getting it right. You don't need to thin, heat, or special anything with Devcon. The only thing that you have to do is put it on at the right temperature. There is another thing that you have to watch. If you send me a PM I will tell you what it is. You see… the thing here is that you can make a fair amount of money or you can make exceptional crankbaits. But, you can’t do both. I have watched people for the past 9 yrs. try and come up with something better than Devcon. They haven’t done it yet. Putting on Devcon is both a skill and an art. You have to do it a lot to be good at it. Keep working at it and I will help you if I can.
Edited by Skeeter, 26 January 2009 - 07:30 PM.
Posted 26 January 2009 - 08:07 PM
ahhh, Ive used up a few hundred packages of D2T, from experience, and hope Im not giving away secret stuff, but certain types of lighting can actually speed up cure rate.
As well as the fact that the thicker (deeper) you have the stuff in your mixing container the faster it builds heat and catalyzes, its like a chain reaction, once it starts building heat it "goes off" and sets... SO the best thing to do is mix your amount needed to coat the bait(s) in a shallow more spread out container or surface, let it spread across the surface, keeping it rather thin in depth.
Hopefully the next creation will hit the Delta and not the trash bin!
Good luck, and enjoy the learning curve... any questions just drop me an email, maybe I can help...
Posted 26 January 2009 - 08:24 PM
Hail, Hail... the gangs all here. CC it has been a REAL long time since I have seen you. Glad to see you take a break. You are one of the few that have done well at this game. Teach all that you like my friend. Many could learn from you.
Posted 26 January 2009 - 08:52 PM
I have been using D2T for a year now. I found out the hard way that you better do what Skeeter and CC just said. Spread it out thin when mixing. I use Freezer Wrapping Paper cut into 4inch squares to mix my D2T. I tape the edges of the paper to the table. That seems to work for me. The temp of the room plays a big part in the way the stuff goes on. I put it on thick and work it from the front to the back with a really good artist brush. I then put it on a wheel for 2 hours. Take it off and hang it for 24 hours. I clean my brush afterward with alcohol. I never do over one lure at a time with my mix. Never get in a hurry, it will just cause a problem.
Posted 26 January 2009 - 09:21 PM
Ahhh, Thanks Skeet! really nice to see a few of the ol timers still frequent these parts... Hope life's treating you well my friend!
As for the epoxy stuff, Ive been round the block a few times myself, and honestly Im still searching for that perfect product. But... I guess that's what life is all about, enjoying the journey!
As for the D2T, I think Ive got the stuff down, I'm to the point that I can mark on the barrel of the applicator with a sharpie the exact incraments to which I can mix and work with before it sets. On average I can brush on a one coat medium thick coverage to about 20 - 25 bass sized cranks per amount dispensed at a time. I do thin very slightly and move quite quickly to acomplish this...
Posted 27 January 2009 - 12:29 AM
Thank you to all. The info that has been posted is like the missing pieces to my puzzle. I've only used devcon on two other lures & it went without a hitch. I remember thinking to myself, wow this stuff is awsome. It was in the summer & I did mix on a flat surface.
The disaster day was me mixing in a small plastic cup & I squeezed out 3/4's of the tube. I was worried about not having enough epoxy to cover my larger bait. It must have been a least 55 degrees in the garage.
The goog news is, before I went to bed (that horrible night) I dug my lure out of the garbage & brushed it off.. I was back @ it the next morning & I'm ready to clearcoat my Lady bluegills. Now if I can just figure out how to keep the D2T out of the joints(thats in one of my other threads) I'll be able to sleep again. Man, I think I might be hooked on lure building. Thank you again, too all,
Posted 27 January 2009 - 01:10 AM
I know this is the wrong thread, but here goes...
Need the real deal on how to protect joints and hardware from paint and epoxy, and yet easily remove when dry?
This will work on ANY hardware and can easily be removed after painting or clear coating , you can even overspray or coat it, and simply peal the stuff off... perfect way to protect even lure lips, but especially tough spots like hardware and hinged areas of jointed baits...
Simple, brushable artists masking fluid or frisket. Available at any craft store, maybe even your Wal-Mart craft section.
Need an alternative, try rubber cement or even silicone sealant, though drying time is longer on that...
Afraid to get the rubber in the joints? it will usually peal off quite easily and excess can be pulled out, just have to apply liberally so you have enough to grab onto.
For applications where the masking fluid may seep to deeply into an area or material is more porous and will soak up the rubber type masking fluid, think modeling clay.
When I went on tour of one large crankbait manufacturer I was surprised to see their method of protecting crankbait lips from overspray painting. They used what looked to be bonnets covering the entire lip made out of thickly built up brush on silicone or that stuff for coating tool handles... Plasti-dip stuff, and they would simply keep reusing these coverings until they tore from being stretched too many times over lure after lure painted...
Good luck on those baits Tim...
Posted 27 January 2009 - 04:15 PM
To keep the epoxy from gumming up the joints, I use two methods.
One is to coat the insides of the joints with D2T, lapping onto the faces 1/4", while the lure is apart.
Then I assemble it, put it on my wheel, and coat the faces with Nu Lustre, which has to be turned for at least 12 hours.
The other is to put the individual sections on the wheel and coat them there with Nu Lustre, including inside the joints, before final assembly.
Both ways work.
I find coating the insides of the joints with D2T before assembling it lets me do a more thorough job of getting the epoxy into all the nooks and crannies without either missing spots, or having a hidden buildup.
Either way takes time, and patience.
I like the artist's frisket idea. I'm going to go to an art supply and get some to try.
Edited by mark poulson, 27 January 2009 - 04:17 PM.
Posted 28 January 2009 - 12:46 PM
I have had a few epoxy disasters along the way myself. It does take some time and practice. You may want to give this a try to salvage your bait. It has worked for me a few times. Wave a propane torch over the bait lightly until the epoxy starts to melt and crack. Once it has started to crack and peel a bit, you can often get under it and chip and flake the Devcon off. You may need to work it with the torch occasionally if you come to a stubburn spot. This will ruin your paint job, but a paint job is easier to reproduce than a whole new bait. Remember to be careful with the heat and not actually burn the bait, go slow and good luck.
Posted 31 January 2009 - 12:32 AM
Torching it off will work. Been there and done that - a lot better that junking the whole plug. You can go pretty crazy with the flame just don't burn the wood. Wear a respirator and do it outside.