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Keeping Flat Baits Flat?
16 replies to this topic
Posted 16 February 2009 - 05:25 AM
RE: Blazer like baits, flat sided
I continue to have trouble achieving a uniform epoxy thickness on large flat sided baits. Using D2T and ~5 rpm dryer. The epoxy tends to be thicker on edges and thinner and nonuniform on sides. I have tried horizontal and vertical rotation. Any advice would be appreciated.
Posted 16 February 2009 - 06:47 AM
I am probably telling you something you already know, BUT, have you tried rounding off the corners, in the transition between the rounds and flats? The thicker the liquid the greater the meniscus you will get - D2T being very thick, thinks these (flats /rounds) are 2 different areas and produces two distinct miniscusesssssss, you have to 'trick' it into covering both, although it will always be thinner in these transition areas.pete
Edited by hazmail, 16 February 2009 - 06:48 AM.
Posted 16 February 2009 - 12:57 PM
It seems to me that your bad results may be related to either the painted surface or to how you applied the epoxy. The paint surface needs to be dry and without any oil or particles. I have best luck applying D2T at room temperature or above and with a medium flat edge artist's brush. It does a more uniform job than 'flux brushes' and that's a head start on getting a smooth uniform clearcoat. Don't think of painting the surface, think of smoothing on the epoxy, never letting the brush drag on a dry surface. This gets MORE epoxy on the bait, which means it will level out better when you put it on the lure turner to cure. When I have to epoxy in the garage in winter, I add a few drops of denatured alcohol to the mix to make it more brushable and help leveling.
Posted 16 February 2009 - 07:15 PM
At first, I thought you've put it on too thick. But after reading Bobs post, maybe you are not putting enough on.
I seems that there is a happy medium somewhere. You need to experiment with this.
Posted 16 February 2009 - 07:45 PM
Thanks guys! I believe Pete has the answer. The epoxy is always applied on the heavy side and always above 70 F. The epoxy is never dragged across the surface. I learned some hard lessons using Flex Coat for about a year. I use D2T as a wood sealer and the problem starts at this point. If I flatten the bait after sealing and before proceeding to painting, the result is pretty good. I suspect the meniscus (surface tension?) may be affected by shape and maybe the paint texture? Is it possible that I'm also compressing the flat sides during sanding? I will try altering the shape of the sides next time per suggestion from Pete.
Posted 17 February 2009 - 06:46 AM
Pete has a good approach here because you can't fight epoxy's nature without taking extreme steps, (such as highly diluting it and spraying it) which have their own problems enough that it is another subject.
If you're going to brush epoxy on a lure, you have to not fight it, but work with its self-leveling property in a manner such as Pete's illustration suggests, and help it what it wants to do naturally. If you are going to fight it by not altering your lure design, prepare to apply multiple coats, and have plenty of sand paper in several medium to fine grades, in order to build up the thin areas and sand the thicker areas back down to a uniform thickness...which is another way working with what epoxy gives you. I often do this for my seal coat(s) with E-tex on flat balsa lures, and it really isn't as bad as it sounds when you plan for it and become practiced with it. Of course you can do the same thing with your top coats, as long as you're careful to not sand through the thinner spots to the paint!
Posted 17 February 2009 - 05:54 PM
Bob P. has very good results apparently with that "special" artist brush. I use throw aways from walsmart. I hate to take the time to clean a brush between baits especially if I am doing 6 or more at a time.
Basically Pete is suggesting an elongated ellipse rather than the rounded edges on flat stock. I am also going to thin my sealer coat to something like 50/50. It seems the thickness of the epoxy is more uniform after the first sealer coat.
Posted 17 February 2009 - 07:04 PM
Well, speaking of meniscusessssss – I have been working on this cross between a Mullet /and Sand Whiting copy (great live baits here) on and off for the past week, it has all the 'fruit', made it from PVC foam, DNA hinge (nightmare), and hand made eyes @ 4.5” long. I 'finish coated' it with Etex, and as you can see there are heaps of meniscus's. This is the second time this has happened for some strange reason, the lure was not touched while, or after painting, so I am at a loss as to why this 'orange peel' happened, I cooked it for 20 min before applying. Anyway I am sick of these epoxy experiments, and am determined to make something that will preserve 'DN Clearcoat'/or 'Plucid' ,and get some sort of certainty into 'finish coating'–
I just found out a mate of mine was killed by a falling tree last night (fighting the fire in Victoria), another one to the toll, which is now 201, This has brought me to the conclusion that life is too short to be spending another week fixing this crap.
Posted 17 February 2009 - 07:22 PM
Pete; Sorry about your personal loss. I hope they are getting closer to finding the arsonist. There hasn't been much news on this recently.
Posted 18 February 2009 - 01:13 AM
I can speak on behalf of the whole TU crew in backing up silverdoctors condolences. I'm so sorry to hear you lost a fellow firefighting comrade.
Just so you know, I wear the the Australian Royal Fire Brigade hat you gave me religiously, it's well broken in & comfortable. If there's anything we (TU) can do, let me know.
We had a fellow Australian TU member pass on last year & we sent flowers to the procession & stayed in touch with his kin. if you have ideas on how we can contribute to the cause, or to his memory, again, get ahold of me.
All the best my friend.
Posted 18 February 2009 - 01:42 PM
My sincere condolences to you and your brother firefighters.
Posted 18 February 2009 - 06:13 PM
sorry you lost a friend pete. for the epoxy coverage pete is correct. epoxies hate corners.
Posted 18 February 2009 - 08:32 PM
Good morning, it's another day here - Thank you all for your condolences, it is very much appreciated. Fortunately these tragedies don't happen often here, being a pretty small department with only 230 F/F on the ground- the down side to this is everyone knows everyone else, so it's very personal for the whole originisation.
The biggest tragedy is he leaves a wife and 3 children, which must be devastating for them. Dave was a really funny guy, didn't fish much, but was an avid shooter and bow hunter, and had been a F/F for about 10 years.
Gerry, thanks you for you condolences, and kind offer of assistance, Dave's widow and children will be well looked after by his 'extended' family and a good pension fund, but emotionally, I don't know how families get over this, his wife is a very tough lady though and a qualified electrician, so has something to eventually fall back to.
Thank you all again, and Ken, sorry for hijacking your thread, I heard of Dave's death as I was typing that post. pete
Posted 18 February 2009 - 10:28 PM
Im very sorry too!! Just read about it.. hate to hear this news.
Posted 19 February 2009 - 12:59 AM
Pete: Not to worry, you had already solved my issue in your first reply.
Posted 12 October 2009 - 03:05 PM
Sorry to hear you lost a friend Pete. My condolences to you and his family.