Jump to content
Water Based Paints For Airbrushing Crankbaits
18 replies to this topic
Posted 16 February 2009 - 09:23 PM
I just started painting crankbaits with an airbrush. Needless to say I have a lot to learn. My initial efforts involved lacquer paints. I am considering using waterbased paints to make cleanup easier. I have the following questions:
1. Are these as good as the lacquer based paints.
2. Where is the best place to buy such paints.
3. Are there any other things I should be considering before deciding this is the way to go.
Any help that anyone can provide will be appreciated. Thanks.
Posted 17 February 2009 - 12:36 AM
As to whether they're as good, you just have to try them and decide for yourself. There are differences in the results you get but a majority of hobby painters use acrylics because they are less toxic and cleanup with soap and water. Createx, Smith Wildlife and Van Dyke are popular brands and can be bought from web stores like taxidermy.net or dixieart.com. Createx is also sold at many craft stores. Personally, I like acrylics for the above reasons and am satisfied with the results. Due to the toxicity, I wouldn't dream of using anything else.
Posted 17 February 2009 - 10:01 AM
Thanks for the information. I will check those products out.
Posted 17 February 2009 - 11:16 PM
NItro, I agree with BobP. Laquers are awesome paints but the toxic affect is a real concern. If you do use laquers take all correct measures for your health and saftey. Laquer fumes are a real threat, take that VERY SERIOUSLY, read the threads, and ask alot of questions. I use createx and some wasco paints , but you still need ventilation.
Posted 18 February 2009 - 12:54 PM
I;m new to the airbrush painting lures just getting started.. can anyone tell me what the best color paints or rather the most comman colors to start out with would be..... so i'm not buying colors and never using them....
Posted 18 February 2009 - 01:49 PM
I use only Createx also which are water based. One for safety purposes over laquers (although precautions still need to be taken) and the ease of use. You can use other water based craft paints but be mindful that there intended use is usually to be brushed on. Createx is made for the airbrush. That being said, depending on the createx paint you use will determine how much you want to dilute. I dilute pearls a lot heavier than regular colors and opaque a little more than transparent. Just experiment and youll get the hang of it.
Polytranspar makes an excellent airbrush paint and its a taxidermy paint. Try Wasco online for those, they are a little pricier than createx but great paints. You can generally get Createx at any craft/hobby store. Good luck!
Posted 18 February 2009 - 05:01 PM
does the createx have a clear coat as well? once dry its impermiable to water of course/i take it? thanks.
Posted 22 February 2009 - 03:16 PM
I've only been painting for a few weeks, but I've had a heck of a jumpstart due to help from the awesome people here.
Kreatex does make a clear cote but DONT USE IT.
I cleared my first bait with it and went to the lake.
Caught a striper on my 5th cast of the day with it ant the clear was hanging off the bait like a sausage skin. ....lesson learned.
From what I've gathered to clear you need either devcon 2ton epoxy (which I am using now) or another favorite on here envirotex.
Btw about thinning paint, I've been spraying straight kreatex.
Is this bad for my airbrush?
Posted 29 May 2009 - 02:27 PM
Bringing up an older thread today from searching forum. My airbrush came today!
I was wondering if you thin those craft paints? and do you use acrylic medium, windex or water? I also had a question on safety, I dont want to breathe the particulate from the brush. With water based acrylics, is a dust mask sufficient? I have a tuberculine mask and was wondering if that was good?
Posted 30 May 2009 - 02:08 PM
I highly recommend you guys never use windex to clean your airbrushes, and definately never, ever soak your airbrush in windex......Windex contains ammonia, and ammonia will eventually eat the chrome right off your brush so don't use it......water alone is normally fine for flushing out your brush. You could use some of the "airbrush cleaners" being sold by Createx or different companies if you want....i've used them before and now I just use water....its alot cheaper too. I've been airbrushing for over 30yrs and have used most of the paint brands on the market, and I only clean my brushes with either water or lacquer thinner.....occasionally i've been known to use mineral spirits to clean up a brush after using waterbased acrylics....specially if I let it sit in the brush for awhile at start to harden....mineral spirits is a mild solvent and even works well for wetsanding acrylics when you don't wanna use water to wetsand with.
The cheap craft style of acrylics paints shown in the pics below are just that....cheap acrylics...made for grandma to use in her tole painting classes...lol. In most applications the color pigments in those paints are not ground fine enough to get used with anything other than a hairy paintbrush....not in airbrushes....But....they can be made to work if you have an airbrush with a large enough noozle.....0.3mm or larger is usually fine......0.2mm and smaller can give you fits with clogging. Thats why most guys use a paint made for airbrushing....the finer ground pigments allow them to be sprayed thru a tiny noozle without much trouble.
I don't know what makes you guys think that waterbased paints clean up easier than solvent paints....cause they do not clean up quicker.....I can flush out solvent paints and switch to another color in 1/4 the time of doing it with waterbased.....I guess its a matter of preference.
Yes, you'll have solvent fumes to deal with, but a good exhaust fan in a window next to you will take care of that.....Solvent based paints are not really all that deadly to you.....its the solvent based clearcoats that will take you out.....and its really only the catalist that is toxic....the isocyanides in it are the main reason we wear resperators and zutesuits and use paintbooths when spraying.....its nasty stuff and DOES require proper ventilation and precautions when mixing or spraying.....the actual basecoats and thinners are not that bad....yeah they smell, but they are no where near as toxic as the clearcoats.....Heck, even Createx has a smell to it when sprayed....not as bad,but it smells.....I guess I should point out that you should wear a resperator when spraying waterbased acrylics.....just cause its waterbased doesn't mean it won't coat your lungs, so don't be a tough guy and paint without either a real good ventilation system or resperator....or both....and that means using a resperator thats rated for organic vapors.....a dust mask ain't good enough to paint with.
For thinning acrylics I use water.....some of the newer waterbased stuff is coming out with its own thinners.....but mostly all it takes is some added water to thin out the acrylics a bit, but its easy to go too thin so do it a bit at a time till you get a feel for what your brand of paint requires....all brands are different and all brands change from bottle to bottle...specially the cheap stuff.....I hope this helped.
PS....an airbrush medium is normally paint without any pigments in it.....so adding it will not act as a thinner.....it will act as a carrier and will allow you to mix your own powdered pigments or pearls into it for spraying....you can also use it to make a paint more translucent since its just a clear binder.....I hope that made sense?
Edited by 68KingFisher, 30 May 2009 - 02:19 PM.
Posted 30 May 2009 - 03:53 PM
Great info, thanks man. So I need a respirator even for water-based acrylics? I am curious how people spray nails, or tattoos for a long period and not make their customers wear one. I am not doubting a word you are saying, just curious if a mask with a N95 or higher rating would be good for water based? Even if it wasn't a full face reaspirator.
Posted 30 May 2009 - 05:20 PM
KingFisher - first I would like to say thanks for all your very informative posts, they are for me anyway. It's refreshing to hear this from someone who does not seen to have a barrow to push, or is not when you look deeper, pushing a product some company is conveniently sponsoring them for.
In my ignorance I have been suggesting people use 'windex' to stop w/b acrylics 'beading' (not for cleaning) for about 12 months now. I spray at pretty low pressure (about 20lb) and found I was having trouble with the paint beading and 'windex' or a little detergent solved this - but like you and others have said the ammonia in it does seem to attack the brush.
Is there anything that can be added to w/b acrylics to stop the w/b paint beading???? I suppose I could just go and buy some Name Brand air brush paint but it is not readily available here, I would have to drive 25 miles to find it and then they would only stock popular colours - and the price "Createx" 4oz U.S$14 a bottle or HOK 8 X 3oz bottles U.S$96.
Again, thanks for putting me straight.pete
Posted 30 May 2009 - 07:52 PM
No hidden agendas or sponsers from me guys.....I'm just a dumb ol' country boy, with a bad heart, and too dang many hobbies...lol. I don't claim to be any kinda expert, but after 30+ years messing with airbrushes and paint'n on all kinds of surfaces with all kinds of paints, i've probably gotta bit of knowledge stored away, and I don't mind sharing. I started airbrushing back in the 70's during the "Custom Van" craze......but apparently it was taboo for an airbrusher to share information with a "wannabe" back then and I was sent down the road.....So I had to learn the hard way....trial and error....there were no books or videos for help on the subject, so I can honestly say I know whats its like to struggle with makin an airbrush work.....So if I can in some small way help you guys with your airbrush struggles, then i've done my job and helped pass on this craft to the next generation....The internet has really opened up the whole world for real artists and craftsman to share their knowledge and a few of their secrets to others with the same passion....and I think the sharing of information is whats its all about isn't it? Whether i'm sharing my knowledge with my granddaughter or with complete strangers online.....its the act of giving from ones self with no expectations of reciprocation or gain.
Pete, as for your "beading" problem......Whats happening is probably two fold....first your using a thick acrylic that doesn't really wanna lay down by itself too well, so your adding an additive that will break the surface tension in the water molicules and will allow it to spread out and lay down before it starts to skin over and dry. You've seen a drop of water bead up on the table.....well its surface tension that holds that drop together.....by adding an emulsifier you can break that tension and the drop will spread out.
Theres been alot of recipes running rampant thru airbrushing forums in the past couple of years about mixing a better "Thinner" for Createx other than just plain water.....these ideas include the addition of Glycerine obtained in any drug store.....Fantastic kitchen spray cleaner....the original formula only.....Isopropal alcohol....Future floor wax, and more. Folks got to were they were tryin everything under the kitchen sink.....Which is not really a good idea to start atomizing all these chemicals in the air with our airbrushes to breath....Duh?
I personally have used Createx's retarder....Isopropal alcohol, and Glycerine to help reduce the beading problem, as well as slow down tip dry issues which plague all users of waterbased paints....or used too anyway.....some of the newer formulas coming from Createx or Etac are said to not have all the issues the old Createx had....Which I by the way have alot of bottles of.....lol....the old stuff.
Secondly I believe your other problem is pressure......20psi ain't much for a thick acrylic.....not if you want it to atomize well.....kick your air pressures up and see if that don't help. When using waterbased paints I normally run between 45psi minimum and usually 65psi, and if i'm having trouble I might runner on up to 80psi.....This is also why I always tell folks to get the biggest compressor they can afford....those tiny airbrush compressors won't give you the pressure needed....not in the real world anyway..lol.
Now heres the deal.....when your shootin at those higher pressures you gotta make a few adjustments...Move faster...back off a bit from your surface, but not so far that your getting overspray everywhere....Learn trigger control!!!!....tiny amounts of trigger pull will give you better control....better atomazation.....less tip dry.....and better results....the paint will be forced to lay down better because its hitting the surface harder and the tiny droplets can't stay a drop...they get splattered so to speak.....This is also when the name brand airbrushes begin to show why they are better than the off brand no-name airbrushes....control and atomazation.
These higher pressures also require you to adjust how much you thin your paints....Its easy to over thin and then your spiderwebbing and blowing your wet paint around on the surface. Using stencils becomes tougher to hold in place under higher air pressures. But if you can find a happy medium between properly thinned paints and high air pressures, you'll find your paintjobs look alot better..smoother..the paint really does atomize and laydown better.....But then again....thats just my opinion and the way I like to do it when I use my decade old Createx....lol....Your results may vary. It ain't easy....there is no magic formula....practice and experience will improve your paintjobs....period
Pete, I know all about living in the boonies....We live in a town of 5000.....its 65 miles to the nearest town of 30,000.....170 miles to a real city that really has all the stores and choices a man would ever want.....so needless to say I get by with what I can get my hands on locally too.....If Walmart don't got it I either don't need it or I gotta go internet shopping which I don't like to do....lol
I hope this helped.
PS....I forgot to comment on the resperator issue.....Personally I don't wear a resperator when airbrushing....I only wear it when I use a full size paintgun and when spraying clearcoat.....BUT.....I have a decent paintbooth that moves alot of air, and i'm sitting right in front of it most of the time so theres no way for the fumes or overspray to get to me, as they are being pulled away from me. Unless you have a ventilation setup that moves enough air, I highly recommend wearing a resperator....not just a dust mask either....a real resperator made for painting....they are not that expensive and normally you can get filter replacements rather then replacing the whole mask when the only filters are dirty. Also....store your resperator in the ziplock bags they came in when your not wearing them....this will help the charcol filter to last alot longer....plus you don't gotta worry about some little creepy crawly critter building a home in it while its not being used....Trust me on this....i've had it happen...put on a mask with baby spiders in it....I still have nitemares bout that...hehehe.
As for the airbrushing fingernails question I think its strickly that they are applying such a small amount of paint they just don't have much overspray to deal with......Are they breathing some.....You betcha.....will that tiny amount hurt them......Who knows.....maybe if they do it 12 hours a day everyday of their life....but for that matter inhaling tiny amounts of anything over time will cause some kinda problem eventually.....Its kinda like the folks who smoke cigerettes....Why should they were a resperator when the cigerettes will probably kill them first...lol....I dunno....each to his own I suppose.
I will say this.....Like my Grandpa always said....Boy, If i'd of known I was gonna live this long I would've taken better care of myself way back when....lol.
Edited by 68KingFisher, 30 May 2009 - 08:27 PM.
Posted 30 May 2009 - 09:03 PM
Great response kingfisher, I get ya now. I am very new to the airbrush thing and so eager to use it. I have held off though because of the breathing issue. I appreciate your openness though. I think I am gonna do some searches on DIY paintbooths so I can do this inside and have the overspray filtered through the air pull.
Posted 30 May 2009 - 10:17 PM
I've been using DIY paintbooths since I started this venture many moons ago.....for years I used nothing more than a 20" box fan sittin in the window, and i'd put a couple of 20" furnace filters in front of it and spray away.....works great for small time airbrushers working out of that spare bedroom with nowhere else to paint. Now I have a seperate shop from the house and my fan is a much larger home furnace fan....squirrel cage style....moves alot more air.....My filters are bigger and more of them but the same inexpensive DIY booth principal works great and has served me well over the years.....Lord knows i'd love to have a real store bought paintbooth, but I ain't got that kinda money to drop....I'm just a small time hobbiest...not a pro so as dad used ta say....Poor folks have poor ways, but we'll make do.
Posted 30 May 2009 - 10:23 PM
Yes, Createx makes a clearcoat......No, its not impermiable to water once its dry......I would NOT use Createx or Aquaflow clearcoats on baits that will be in the water all the time.....use on anything else and you'll probably be ok....just not on something that'll be submerged alot.
Posted 31 May 2009 - 12:12 AM
Thanks K.F, very informative and I am looking forward to seeing some of your work - if your painting is a s good as your typing, they should be master pieces - GEE I wish I could type like that, I would be able to give these guys on here a real ear bashing:lol: that post of yours would have taken me all day to get up. Thanks again .Pete
Posted 31 May 2009 - 12:38 AM
Yeah man, that one semester of typing class in high school really paid off didn't it....hahahaha.....if only my typing instructor could see me now. Actually my typing speed comes from several years of setting in front of a computer at work....geeez, I really have had my hands on a keyboard for too long haven't I....lol
I guess I am gonna have to "put up or shut up" at some point huh?....lol.....I hope I don't make a fool outta my self....but if I do, just remember it wasn't the first time, and probably won't be the last.
I have already prepped a couple of my old crankbaits in anticapation of tryin my hand at this craft....I sure wish my shop was fixed.