Swimbait won't swim
75 replies to this topic
Posted 02 March 2009 - 04:15 PM
Pete I think that the pronounced edge on trailing section would have a similar effect.
Posted 02 March 2009 - 04:20 PM
If Putting A Lip On A Swimbait Is Cheating Then Someone Needs To Tell Matt Servant To Get Off The Roids!
Posted 02 March 2009 - 04:26 PM
Weighting is your problem, remove some of the weight from the second segment and potentialy from the head. That form should swim without any issue.
Posted 03 March 2009 - 05:35 AM
I have some results to share. First I'll go through my process of many unsuccessful attempts to get my first true swim bait to swim. I started by adding a lower line tie to the original bait with no results. Second I started messing with the weight and body shape by adding putty alter the shape and water resistance to try and initiate any glimpse of "s" movement. Again nothing. At this point I'm thinking it's multiple small things. Next I tapered each individual section to the rear of that particular section creating a step-like profile. This did create some movement but not enough to get excited about but a step in the right direction. The overwhelming consensus from the feedback I received was the line tie and shape of the head needed to be changed so I fired up the bandsaw and went to town. I was able to save the line tie and simply bend it down into a lowered slot I cut after reshaping the head. Back to the tub for a quick dip in water. Nothing, no real change. Scratch my head for while, but still not ready to add a lip to the bait I decided to really taper the bait. I laid the bait on the sander and dust was flying. One last trip to the tub as there was not much more I could do without starting over. Hook my now much lighter bait up to my finest ice fishing pole and give it a short two foot cast, the bait hit the water with a new attitude, viola, it swims.
The line tie, head reshaping, and tapering was the ticket.
I posted a quick video so you guys could see it in action.
YouTube - Swim Bait Proving Grounds
Here's a quick before and after pic. The after is still pretty rough I've yet to sand it smooth and round over the edges, but it swims.
Thanks guys. Your help is always appreciated.
Hope you like the video.
Posted 03 March 2009 - 06:37 AM
Thanks a lot for sharing your results , obviously you've been having a hard time with that lure , but you've finally succeeded .
I like the moves of your bait pretty much , it really acts like a snake in the water and it seems to me , when you're slowing down the pace to turn it around(a bath tub is not a lake:lol:) , the rear portion even moves a bit more .
great work , greetz:yay: , diemai
Posted 03 March 2009 - 07:00 AM
That thing Swims, congrats.
Seems you may have solved it yourself, with that taper, I never thought of that.
I would have thought that tapering to the nose would have had a negative affect, but aparently not!
I'm sure the fish will like it too.
Posted 03 March 2009 - 08:53 AM
Wow, that thing swims like a- well, a fish! Awesome looking bait. I've been kicking around the idea of a swimbait for awhile and I'm gonna give it a try soon. Thanks for sharing your trials and successes with this bait, I'm sure you have helped many of us to grasp a better understanding of what is needed it get a swimbait to swim.
Also, I loved your song choice for the video, it took me back...
Posted 03 March 2009 - 09:58 AM
Very nice! Thats awesome action for such little room to perform the bait! Excellent song choice! Saw them in Chicago a couple weeks back.
Posted 03 March 2009 - 10:50 AM
That's great! It swims beautifully.
I taper my baits, thin at the nose to full thickness at the back of the first section, and then back down to thin at the tail.
I just copied what had worked for others.
Now that Vodkaman's gotten into my head, I think the tapered head splits the water, creating higher pressure at the thickest point, and the reverse taper creates a low pressure area, like a wing shape, and the vortexes created at the thickest point pull on the tapered rear sections because they are in the low pressure area.
Probably, too blunt a nose forces the vortexes too far out away from the body to initiate good swimming action.
Can't wait to see the finished bait!
Posted 03 March 2009 - 11:05 AM
Thanks for all the kind words. It's really is gratifying when it all comes together. I did learn a great deal on this build and will start with a fresh bait this weekend. I think the reverse joints will work and plan to give it a try. I did attempt the reverse joint on this test and that's what started to kick the bait into "s" mode. Shortly thereafter that modification was dust on the floor but it was working.
Cheers – bob
Posted 03 March 2009 - 03:57 PM
Mark. My thoughts were that a blunt nose and along the back of the first section was required to create the vortices, as the flow could not turn the blunt corner and started turning.
But this lure, with the front edge taper kinda' goes against this idea. Well, we are all learning with every post. Thanks bbduc for teaching us all a little more.
Posted 03 March 2009 - 04:23 PM
Thanks Bob, you may have solved my problems as well - I have been putting a lot of taper on the top and bottom planes and very little on the sides, this may be the solution - great work .pete
Posted 03 March 2009 - 05:26 PM
I've been reading this thread, day by day, watching this story unfold and I think the end results are outstanding. It's made me a believer that 'the Power of TU Compells You!" into problem solving as a group. When the power of the group exceeds the sum of the individuals, that is a very special thing to have happen. I'm getting all misty now...if I can just get rid of this urge to take a hot bath.
*****in' song too!
Here's a thought for those struggling to make a living at this-tub toys. No hooks, no hardware, no exotic paint schemes (unless you want to). Specialty toy stores would eat them up as will the mothers of tots at tub time. Diversiving in this economy may be necessary until it all blows over. Just a thought
Posted 03 March 2009 - 06:02 PM
A quick thought I had about vortices after the last post; I think removing the beveled edges from the segments had something to do with the overall success. It allows the edges to catch water which turn starts the loading and unloading process to begin (pressure builds on one side, unloads then builds on the other side until swimming begins).
For those interested in learning more about vortices, there is a book entitled "An Album of Fluid Motion" by Van Dyke. Amazon has it. Amazing photographs of what happens to water when it encounters various shapes and objects. I'd upload some scans but copyright laws have earned my respect.
Posted 03 March 2009 - 06:17 PM
Birdman I believe that may have been part of the problem for sure but my biggest gains of "s" action came when I tapered the sides beyond the bevels. There was a intermediate stage before I really went crazy sanding off the sides and still had plenty of material to work with where I tried a reverse joint. I carved/dremeled out the joint that catches water and did see action from this move. I took it slow and did a little at a time so when the bevels came off I did see a noticeable change but the fluid movement seemed to be more of a weight to resistance ratio. I did not weigh the bait between alterations although in hindsight that actually would have been nice to have.
Posted 03 March 2009 - 06:29 PM
I would love to see a top view of the bait, just the back side. I'm curious how the tapers aid in the 's' action.
My initial observation was your point of line attachnment. I too thought it was too high on the nose. Many times when I was about to throw a design away, just a simple bending down of the nose wire solved everything. Very subtle but makes all the difference.
There are many lessons in this build we can all benefit from. Nicely done.
Posted 03 March 2009 - 06:33 PM
There is plenty of info on karman streets behind an object in water flow. Most of these diagrams are of a static object. Considering that a lure is dynamic you will soon find out that there is much more to it in regards to a lure action. Be prepared to do plenty of reading!
Posted 03 March 2009 - 06:38 PM
I agree with Nate, that shape should swim without any problem. Try changing the weight, if that doesn't work, my suspect is the hinge mechanism. Take out the through-wire and try the old standby of one screw eye connected to another and see if that works.