SR9

Big Baits verses Little Baits

25 posts in this topic

Is the theory - Big Baits equals big fish hold water?

Or is this just a phase just used very loosely?

My opine , that this is just used very loosely.

I believe it all depends on what time of the year it is, what is the food source is where you are fishing etc.

I would like to here what other folks have say about this ever lasting question.

I know, from what I have seen in these forums, there are some very smart and experienced folks in here and I would like see whatcha have to say.

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I usually rearrange my tacklebox at mid October , to switch over to bigger and heavier lures to take along in my small boat .

I do believe in the theory , that one should choose the lures accordingly to the season of year .

Our local predators season is from 1st of May thru 31st of December , the rest of the year we have closing time(there are differences in that from state to state in Germany).

So as the season starts and all through summer , the waters are full of small minnows and freshly hatched fry , and that's what the predators go for this time of year . Even the biggest pike might exclusively eat finger-sized fish then , since these are accessible to them that easy .

But as the weather chills down again in October , those minnows become scarce , and since fish are not warm blooded animals , they don't want to waste energy on chasing after small prey anymore in colder water , but look for a big bite really worth a hunt .

Also the lure action and presentation must become slower , as the water chills down more and more towards winter .

So , in general..........warmer water requires smaller lures with livelier action , cold winter water requires big lures , slowly moving without any too pronounced action(prey fish won't move too lively as well now) , also deeper running , since fish tend to migrate to deeper spots of the swim in the cold season .

But as usual ...... there are always exceptions to the rule:huh:.......that's what makes fishing that exciting ;):yes::lol:!

tight lines :yay:, diemai

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If you want to catch keeper size bass I think there are too many variables to just say "I want to catch big bass so I'll only fish big baits". Big baits do appeal to big bass if they are near the "1/3 length ideal prey size" of big hungry bass, plus they are more likely to be seen by the fish. But lots of factors enter into the equation. A big one is the size of prey that is available and being targeted at the moment. If bass are eating 2" threadfin shad and you throw a 4" crankbait, all bass may ignore it and keep gorging on 2" shad. A recent Berkeley article suggested that the best strategy if you aren't getting bites is to first try upsizing your bait. If that doesn't work relatively quickly, then try downsizing. The main point being that downsizing isn't always the correct strategy. But upsizing isn't either. Don't you wish that bass were as simple as we'd all like them to be? No such luck.

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I think that, at certain times and with certain baits, that can be true.

Since there is usually a variation in the sizes of prey species in most lakes and rivers, going to a larger lure can make the lure stand out enough to make it attractive.

In the case of crawdads, small bass won't take on a big craw, but big bass will.

And if your lake is stocked with trout, or has larger bait fish, like the Hitch in Clear Lake, adult bass get accustomed to foraging on the larger bait, since one big trout meal is less work and more calories than fifty small shad.

When bass are chasing bait, and busting them on the surface, they can be really size specific. But, even there, the bigger, more experienced bass may be below the bait that's been forced to the surface, waiting for the stunned "sloppy seconds" to drift down to them. It's an easier, calorie cheaper meal.

I find a full sized 6" Senko in the purple/white laminated color, dropped down through the busting fish rigged wacky style with a circle hook, often gets the bigger bass that are under the bait, even though it's much bigger than the shad or silversides that are being chased.

I've also had eight inch bass eat a 10" worm, so it's not a hard and fast rule, but it is often the case for me.

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I have caught small-(3 inches) baby bass on 1/2 ounce spinner baits before. And always wondered how this little fish got the big hook in his mouth and why is this little fish trying to eat this big lure. Had similar scenerio's with crankbaits as well. I am sure other folks have similar experiences as well...

Just another bullet for big bait catches big fish is not always true.

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The answer is yes, the answer is no and the answer is sometimes.

Like Diemai said, there are factors that have to be entered into the equation. But I think it is fairly well documented large fish conserve energy by eatling less often, eating larger portions and eating smarter (given the time of year).

I can tell you for personal experience I never caught a fish smaller than 3 lbs on a bird lure. I might go 45 minutes or over an hour between strikes but when it happened, it happened big time. You're free to develop your own theories why this is.

On last thought about big fish-when you consider out of 10,000 hatchlings, only 4 or 5 might grow to be large fish, I think it says something distinctive about the intelligence of those few fish. Whether is was luck or circumstance that they were not eaten as fry is possible but as they grow older, experiences shape their preferences. Eventually the very large fish (is it from making a series of good decision?) become solitary except when the spawn comes around.

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I do a lot of musky fishing around here and you would think you fish big all the time , but thats not always true. In late winter like right now, they have what they call the rattle trap bite. We fish 3/4 ounce to maybe an ounce rattle baits up on the flats in the back of large coves. The shad are running up on the flats and the musky are feeding. You wouldnt think these little baits, compared to a standard musky bait wouldbe what you use but the record will show many upper 40s and 50 inchers that time of year on these baits.Also when fishing pressure is hard and the fish are getting pounded you will down size to bass baits and you will come out on top over the conventional tackle used. Fall is big bait time for musky, not saying small wont catch fish but the fish are putting the winter feed bag on and fishing big is better for me. in a nutshell no on big baits all the time.

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I prefer small cranks because I feel those give me the best chance to catch small and big fish. I don't fish much so when I get a chance to go I just want to get bit.

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Big baits over time will catch bigger fish...

Smaller baits over time will catch more fish...

however...you can catch big fish on smaller baits and small fish on big baits. Think about how many times you have had a very tiny bass eat your crankbait.. I got a picture of mikey on my website where he caught a tiny bass smaller than a bomber speed shad.. He killed it..IM TELLIN YOU!!! IM TELLIN YOU!!! HE KILLED IT.. that is what Mikey said... :lol: if you want a laugh go to my website here is the link

Tater Hog Lure Art

All of this is just my experience on the water.. just my theory.. the only way to prove it is to do a sample study over a long period of time.. you cant prove it in 2 weeks on the water

I LIKE BIG BAITS AND I CAN NOT LIE!! YOU OTHER BROTHER's CAN't BE SHY!!! :yay:

The Rookie

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I had my best Season on Muskie in 08. 13 fish over 30 pounds and fifty inches. Most of the largest and the two largest came on five inch lures 35.40 lb./50" and 34.70lb./ 54 1/4". We are usually playing with seven and eight inch baits by August. We start playing with our 10" baits around September and my biggest on 10" was 34lb. 52". The opposite side was we ran big twin blade bucktails this season and they caught bigger fish by far all Summer than the smaller standard bucktails. I do not know what this means, maybe I should build a little bait/ big bucktail hybrid hmmmm. I really think with our water getting cleaner the little bait may have an advantage. Typical season we catch most of our heavier fish on 10 inch baits when they are putting the feed on for winter and the water is a little dirtier. This seems to be about the same time myself and my friends start to get a little heavier as well!

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Big baits over time will catch bigger fish...

Smaller baits over time will catch more fish...

however...you can catch big fish on smaller baits and small fish on big baits. Think about how many times you have had a very tiny bass eat your crankbait.. I got a picture of mikey on my website where he caught a tiny bass smaller than a bomber speed shad.. He killed it..IM TELLIN YOU!!! IM TELLIN YOU!!! HE KILLED IT.. that is what Mikey said... :lol: if you want a laugh go to my website here is the link

Tater Hog Lure Art

All of this is just my experience on the water.. just my theory.. the only way to prove it is to do a sample study over a long period of time.. you cant prove it in 2 weeks on the water

I LIKE BIG BAITS AND I CAN NOT LIE!! YOU OTHER BROTHER's CAN't BE SHY!!! :yay:

The Rookie

Rookie I will agree that over time big baits will produce more big fish but I wouldnt say that it will any day on the water or in fact any week on the water. Lake conditions and food source is a big factor in let say in what I fish for muskies.Musky love shad thats a fact they will swim past a hundred bass for a shot at pod of shad or cisco type of fish and if the shad are 4 inches long you need to be in that same class. The rattle bait bite that I was talking about earlier has came around a few years ago around here and there are more 50 inch class fish on caverun this time of year on these small baits than any other bait this time of year that they are throwing. How do I know this on the lake, all the fisherman are piled up in the same coves you are fishing within casting distance with the next boat and you can see what everyone is throwing and all the guides post there reports on line and so does the average joe as well. Everyone kind of comunicates with each other on what goes on. Believe me Im usally the first guy to pick up the bait that makes everone say damn you gonna throw that but this time of year I go small. Edited by jamie

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The only reason I dont throw 8"+ baits is if Im throwing jigs or frogs, and I live in WA, not CA, FL, TX like most of the people that do. When I first got to WA i was like everyone else, 1-2 pounders with an occasional 4 on the senkos, spinnerbaits, cranks, yadda yadda. After I did my research on the swimbaits, I went for it. I didnt get one fish over 5lbs(dont get too big in WA) until I threw swims all the time. I know people that have never caught one over 5 and they grew up here, I got I think 12 over 5 last season on swims only. A few on jigs and frogs, but nothing even close to the swimbaits. This is my personal experience, but the difference is I throw the ALL the time, not like most that throw them for 5 minuntes and set it down. Sure I go a couple trips without a fish, but when I do catch its quality. Sure they catch small fish, but there isnt anything that catches quality(over 4lbs for me is quality) like swimbaits except jigs. Of course big ones will hit senkos, cranks, yadda yadda, but nothing except jigs comes close to the consistency of swimbaits. I have seen the light and it shines very very bright.

Please dont get me wrong, Im not knocking any other way of fishing, Ive done it all. If you guys do a good amount of research, you might also see this bright light, and trust me its bright! I did hours and upon hours of research, then took the expensive swimbait plunge. I will never look back ever again. Do not look at it like a fad or something that will pass. There is a reason people like me spend good amount of cash on one lure, its because we are hog hunting. If you want quantity, dont throw swimbaits, if you want quality and a better chance of hog bass, dont hesitate to toss the big baits around, no matter where you live. Im not talking paddletails or anything under 8" for that matter, im talkin quality swimbaits with quality terminal tackle.

I hope to see more people that dont seem to "believe" take the plunge. Its a very fun way of fishing and could bring you more hogs than ever. :yay:

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I settled this question for myself years ago. Now bear in mind, I have well over 40 years experience on the waters and I pay strict attention to the details when I'm out there.

So...what is required for the big dudes? How can one consistently haul in the true hawgs? Does bigger mean bigger? Huh? Well, does it? Do you feel lucky, punk?

The answer is the bait itself is utterly irrelevant. Its the garb, the attire, the threads, the fashion that counts. Oh, now don't get the wrong idea here, my friends. You can't just open the pages of LL Bean, throw down your credit card and expect to catch fish. No, the true monoliths of any given species are onto that game. They know posers when they see them.

In order to consistently catch true trophy class fish, you must at the very least, have a lucky T-shirt. There I finally said it. The cat is out of the bag. The secret is revealed to the world. Fish species will now begin to decline on a global basis. Famine, starvation, pestilence, will surely follow. So what. We'll all die healthy from eating a low fat diet of rice and thick fish fillets.

My weapon is a Bruce Lee T-shirt. Oh, yea! And don't even think you can simply duplicate my choice. The fish will know you're disingenuous and shun you, your boat, your lures, your friends, and your offspring.

Acquiring the "secret" mojo garment is a quest. It requires hours of experimentation. (At one point, I would stop every twenty minutes or so and do a complete change of clothing on the water...new underwear, including Spiderman Underoos, new socks, you name it). the process may take years. But when you find that magic hat, that magic shirt, or those special Fruit Of The Loom underpants, you have found Nirvana.

Suddenly, when you hit the right combination, the right ensemble of clothing, your success rate arcs skyward. You have "arrived." The guys at the boathouse and/or the various launch ramps speak of you in hushed terms and have to fight the urge to follow you around the lake, just for the privilege of watching you boat fish after fish after fish. The woman will love you and want to ravage you again, and again, again You will be famous and respected. You will get into all the best restaurants and be invited to all the right parties. Oprah will comment on you and repeatedly invite you to her show, but of course, you will respectfully decline. Requests for interviews from the major news wires and websites will be so commonplace that it may become problematic to even send declinations to them all.

"How is it you do not see the grasshopper at your feet?"

Big bait vesus little bait? That you would ask that question is proof that your quest has begun, Grasshopper. You are still a student and have not earned the right to burn the dragons in your forearms...yet.

"As quickly as you can snatch the swimbait from my hand."

*in the distance a gong sounds*...Fatfingers drops into the lotus position and contemplates his choice of topcoat...

"Etex or Devcon?....Etex or Devcon?....ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmm"

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The above post of Fatfinger's clearly illustrates the implications of using solvent base paints and the occasional inhalation of the vapors. So the decline continues.

Funny stuff! Vince

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The image of a 40 year old t shirt with holes and a faded likeness of Bruce Lee made me throw up in my mouth-alittle.

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Brothers, you have all got it wrong. It's all about sandwiches. Reach for a snack and the fish will bite.

Armed with this knowledge, you can trick the fish into bighting, with a decoy sandwich. Never fails.

Dave

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I forgot to add in my statement above that the barometer is going crazy this time of year when the trap bite is on and this is another reason to go small. There is very little stability with all the front movements, you just fish and wait for your window.

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Even though there is science and talent behind catching fish, sometimes it comes down to just being at right place - at the right time, no matter what one has tied on at the end of the line.

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Bav88 spoke the only truth on this matter. The only reason most people don't catch big fish is because they don't fish for big fish. Keep on reading all that nonsense the pros are sellin ya. They are the best in the world at catching better than average fish under a time restriction. They don't know jack about catching trophy fish in the average pond. Anyone can go down Mexico way chuck an 8" bait for a week and whack a 10. Try the same stuff on a lake above 4,000 feet. Most people just don't have the dedication it takes to catch a good one. Make all the excuses and justifications you want, but this is fact......

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@ gunnie3035

Your statement about Mexico reminds me to a certain European prof' angler always catching nice and plenty of perch , pike and walleye(zander)displayed in his videos and books .

He is a German , but lives and obviously most likely always fishes in the Netherlands , where the fish stock seemingly is pretty much better as it is in Germany , due to the strict "catch-and-release" restrictions and attitude over there .

Over here we have some different stupid restrictions demanding to take home every legal sized fish , and though an increasing number of us constantly violates that dump rule , the stock of predatory fish over here seems to be not as good as in our neighbor-country by far .

I always wonder , whether this guy would also catch his usual lots of fish in my own native waters , where one sometimes really has to struggle to get something on the line .

greetz:yay: , diemai

Edited by diemai

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diemai , why do they want every legal fish taken home? sounds like to me they want to remove the predator chain from water system. I hope the legal fish is a narrow window, like a slot limit and not everything over a certain lenght. I understand that some fish needs to be harvested but that seems a little extreme. I hope thing work out for the fishery where you live and maybe you can lobby and try to make a change.:yay:

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At first , sorry about the following little off-topic:worship: !

@ Jamie

These fishing restrictions in Germany to kill every legal sized fish are the worst of entire Europe , as far , as I know:yes: !

They are based on the green party ideologies , that no animal should be mistreated or misused for a human sporting ,-or leisure activity , which catch-and-release would be in their own eyes .

So , after their arguments , the purpose of fishing should only be a senseful use of those natural sources(the meat of the fish) , and the best use is of course to eat the fish !

The purpose of fishing should not be just pure fun or even of a competative character !

So all fish above their restricted legal size and outside of their particular spawning or stocking closing time period must be killed by law !

When having reached your daily/weekly catch amount limit , fish for different species or.......go home:huh:(in a nutshell).

Illegal sized fish or fish accidentally caught during their closing time must be released , if injured too bad to survive , they must be killed , chopped to pieces and thrown back into the water:eek: !

To protect the fish stock , there are catch amount limits everywhere , but these are not very reliable to keep up a good stock , if the water is heavily pressured .

Alright , so far about our stupid fishery restrictions , made by stupid politicians without any knowledge on the subject , just for maybe political correctness .

But I can assure you , more and more anglers over here break and violate those stupid restrictions and practise CPR , because they learned and know about the importance to preserve a good stock of fish in our waters .

Even though it sometimes happens , that lawsuits against such CPR guys are opened , most likely nothing would happen , since they can't put an inspector or a cop behind every guy with a rod in his hands !

I remember two cases reported some years ago in a local angling magazine , both happened about exactly the same time .

One British angler got convicted over there for having killed a bigger carp and taken it home , whereas about same time in Germany a local angler also got convicted , but for having released a big carp:huh: !

Crazy , isn't it :eek:?

One could read more and more posts nowadays on German fishing sites about catches , that "accidentally fell off the hook at boatside" , or "darn.....slipped from my hands back into the water" etc. , so reading this gives hope for the future , hopefully the politicians would notice one day as well ?

Sorry again but this off-topic......:yay:!

greetz :yay:, diemai

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