Stronger nylon vs. acrylic hinge for swimbait
26 replies to this topic
Posted 06 April 2009 - 12:15 AM
Here is the new "Fiberglass Infused Nylon Ninge" that I used on a small bluegill swimbait. The acrylic piano hinge I used in the shad swimbait tutorial has been holding up just fine, but I'm always on the look-out for a stronger, more durable hinge. Maybe it will get some wheels turning for someone just starting out, like myself.
Posted 06 April 2009 - 01:41 AM
@ CA Delta
Hi , Tim , these are obviously the hinges , that you had once linked to me for display ?
Now I see , that they have their sleeves offset from the flanges , which could cause problems in my point of view.
Off course I don't know about their weight compared to the PVC material just by looking at your pics , but if they are a bit heavy , they might cause your lure to swim lopsided the way , that you have assembled them .
To get their sleeves exactly centered , like you did here as well , I might probably have mounted them vice versa to one another , meaning , that I would have cut the pouches to accommodate their flanges left of center on first and second section and right of center on second and third section , so also the mounting screws would have led through from either side of the baits interior center .
Possibly the ballast weights would later still balance the lure properly , hard to tell on a distance ,........but this is , what came to my mind straightaway , when viewing your post .
Surely I don't mean to minor your efforts , but this is , what I'd be concerned about .
But undoubtely these fiberglass reinforced hinges would hold up better than pure nylon ones , I am sure about that .
A pity , that they don't seem to be available in still smaller sizes .
good luck:yay: , Dieter
Posted 06 April 2009 - 09:05 AM
That's purdy neat Tim!! I like the idea.. do you have to weight the bait at all after you put them in.. just curious.. Cool Idea!
Posted 06 April 2009 - 06:13 PM
Hey Dieter, I will definitely try & switch the hinges in the opposite direction. I have tried it with another brand of hinge, but the offset was to large. I was able to get these hinges, centered up fairly close. The hinges are very light weight, real similar to the PVC board that I use. I think the stainless steel hinge pin, actually weighs more than the hinge itself. I'll keep you posted for sure.
Hey Rookie, long time no chat. I still have to add ballast in the first & second sections. Did some swim tests last night & I am delighted with the results. Can you believe I still haven't started painting yet. I told you I was slow. My main concern with my baits is the action. Hopefully it will pay off some day, after I learn how to paint.
Posted 06 April 2009 - 11:21 PM
@ CA Delta
Hi , Tim ,
It was just my concern ,...... but now , that I hear that these hinges are that light , I see , that it is not an issue at all !
Just could not imagine them to have so little weight .
good luck:yay: , Dieter
Posted 07 April 2009 - 01:02 AM
@ Dieter, I weighed one if the hinges on my wifes not so acurate scale & it was 1/4 oz. or about 8 grams, somewhere around there. It's hard to read, I think I need glasses. There is also the weight of the sheet rock screws I used, but I'm looking into some nylon wood screws, if they even exist. All in all, I was able to install the ballast in the belly, making for a nice tight swimming action. I still wish I could find a thinner hinge, that had the hinge pin down the center, instead of offset. I'll let you know, if I find any new materials.
Posted 07 April 2009 - 06:19 AM
With that huge surface area of glue, I doubt you need any cross fixings.
Rough up the web surface with 80 grit, apply epoxy or your choice, hold in place with screws, remove screws when dry. I would probably use 5 min epoxy, so as not to hold up the process.
Posted 07 April 2009 - 08:13 AM
I like your hinge idea on this bait. Ive never picked up one of these hinges so I dont really know there stengths. I have picked up other nylon hinges ( used them for other projects) and water, sun and heat made them brittle over time.I would worry about the torque on these baits from big fishafter a long period of time of weather and the abuse from fishing. Like I said ive never picked up this style of hinge before and it may hold a tank, it looks tougher than the hinge that I used. The hinge I used was a lighter colored hinge. This was just a worry that I had.
Posted 07 April 2009 - 02:53 PM
@ CA Delta
Hi , Tim , I have just browsed through some German sites a bit looking for suitable hinges , but wasn't successful .
In a marine store there were quite similar ones to yours in here , all stainless ones that I've seen , were way too large for lures and also pretty expensive .
Also looked through modellmaking suppliers sites , but there were only these flap and rudder hinges of Nylon and brass plated iron , that I have mentioned before in my thread "Sheet Metal Hinge" .
There were also some strange round , dowel-like hinges there , but the pics were not too detailed , so I could not figure out about their construction .
They are round , thus supposed to be glued into two opposing bores in either part , but I don't know , whether the hinge also works with a pin and bore construction or it has a ball and bearing connection , that would probably move to either direction ?
Also I can't tell about their strength , too .
I also saw a flap and rudder hinge in there made of glass fibre , would look like textile and is supposed to be glued into slots in the two opposing parts , I guess .
There was not a good picture nor a thorough describtion , but I guess , that these were too small and thin to withstand fishing abuse .
But I have once read in a recent tackle catalog about multiple sectioned plastic shads , these had some kind of kevlar textile cast into them , and they said , that it would hold up against any fish .
But I can't tell more , since I have never had one in my hands .
One more small hinge I have found on the web was for building puppet houses , these have small functional furniture or their roofs or walls could be opened ,..... this is , what such hinges are required for .
But I strongly doubt , that these are rustproof , they'd be of plated iron as well , I suppose .
I am gonna put up a tut about my homemade hinges anyway , only need to gather some info on how to write and submit it !
I am already busy taking step-by-step pictures of one particular 3-section crankbait under construction , later of the hinge construcion itself .
greetz , Dieter:yay:
Posted 08 April 2009 - 09:21 PM
Just a guess, but I would think that those heavy hinges would screw up the ballast on smaller lures. You might could get away with them on larger baits, but in my experience the ballast has to be head forward as low as you can go, especially with swimbaits.
Posted 09 April 2009 - 01:13 AM
@ Dave, I never thought about roughing up the surface with some 80 grit. I will definitely try that on my next bluegills.
@ Jammie, I do agree that the standard nylon hinges (milky white color) tend to get brittle after some abuse & wheathering. I talked with the sales rep. from the hinge manufacturer up in Washington & he said that if I was looking for a strong lightweight hinge that the fiberglass infused is the best on the market. They are fairly inexpensive also. I will do a load test on one of my baits & post the details.
@ Dieter, thanks for the feedback on the hinge hunt. I'm interested in the article about the kevlar textile hinge you mentioned. I can't wait to see your new swimbait & the hinge tutorial.
@ bdhaeh, these hinges measure 1-1/2" W x 1-3/8" H. The swimbaits that I build range from 5" to 10" long & 2" to 3-1/4" high. I'm not sure if they would work on smaller baits. I'm finding myself putting the heaviest weight in the belly of the middle section, with some weight in the head & even sometimes in the tail. So many variables.
Thanks for all the feedback.
Posted 09 April 2009 - 06:23 AM
what we need here boys (& girls) is some 'Polycarbonate' hinges, tough, easy to work, cold won't affect it, UV stable for 10 years (they say), it's slippery, it's 9.30pm here, but I'll get onto it right away.pete
Edited by hazmail, 09 April 2009 - 06:26 AM.
Posted 09 April 2009 - 11:03 PM
Hey Pete, what exactly is polycarbonate? Is it similar to acyrlic? Could you give me some kind of break down?
Posted 10 April 2009 - 03:21 AM
Tim - all I know is that it is a plastic/resin (tough) and there are a lot of different grades, here is a link to 'Makrolon' which is a Bayer company, 3M and who knows make it also. I think they make the modern day 'Bullett proof glass' from it, at about 1" thick of course. Any thing clear and impact resistant is made of it now days, eye glasses, safety glasses, even wind screens. pete
Bayer MaterialScience NAFTA - Products - Makrolon® polycarbonate (PC) resin
Posted 11 April 2009 - 09:54 PM
I made a polycarbonate (Lexan) hinge yesterday and decided to see how strong this stuff really is.
The hinge is 'double plate' and each leaf is 1mm thick a total of 2 X 20 x 27 mm with a .8mm S/S hinge pin.
I hung it with chain from the shed roof trusses and swung a 20litre bucket with the hinge clamped in between. The bucket, clamps, and chain weighed about 2 Kg, I slowly adding water to the bucket (remembering a liter weighs 1Kg), and got to 8L no problems, but at 12L the pin started to deflect and eventually bent, this was with a total of 14Kg (36.4 lb). Hopefully, as you can see from the pictures, stupidly I did not glue the plates together, so the pin popped out of it's hole, which caused it to fail, there was no damage to the hinge only the pin. I replaced the pin and it worked perfectly.
Although nowhere near where I thought it would fail, I was pretty impressed with the outcome, and would expect with the hinge plates glued together would have to get another 10Kg, although the
.8mm pin may be asking a bit much.
At 12 Kg (fail)
With new pin
Posted 11 April 2009 - 10:32 PM
Pete you are the lexan man... I love the work you have done with this and the best thing is that its lighter than the others. keep testing and comming up with those ideas.
Posted 12 April 2009 - 12:37 AM
Great stuff , Pete !
Unbelieveable to me , that the lexan holds up that much !
But a 0,8 mm pin is rather thin , I wouldn'd go less than 1,5 mm brass , better 2,0 mm .
The best pin material would be stainless steel wire , but such pin would be difficult to lock in place .
greetz , Dieter:yay:
Posted 12 April 2009 - 01:53 AM
Pete, you probably already figured this out anyway. If the pin was a closer fit inside the hinge, then it would act in shear and not bending, a much stronger situation.
A 1/16" brass rod or even 3/32 brass tube might be enough to improve the situation. The tube would be ideal, as it would be easy to swage.
The 1/16" rod fits inside the tube, so a short length of rod could be bonded inside, to reinforce the shear points, preventing collapse of the tube. I was messing around with brass rods and tubes about 2 years ago, so not sure of the exact sizes.
Edited by Vodkaman, 12 April 2009 - 02:01 AM.