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Props for PVC
27 replies to this topic
Posted 21 May 2009 - 08:32 PM
I found a producer of PVC material...
Rod, Bar & Machining Stock
I called them and they gave me a number for a local distributor whom I called and order some PVC rounds... Looking fwd to "playing" As you can see they have different shapes and sizes of rectangular as well. Pretty reasonable prices.. 1" rounds x 5ft were $3.98 ea. plus s&h. just my
Posted 22 May 2009 - 06:51 AM
Just lurking here! Coley was the man who turned me on to "Sign Board" aka Sintra. He was generous enough to send me a piece to play with. It is much tougher than the stuff at the big box stores, as it is meant to be subject to the elements 24/7, for years on end. It is sold in various colors and in various thicknesses.
A search of local sign shops may get you some scraps, free. Usually a container or coffee and the offer of a free lure will secure the "purchase.":twocents:
Posted 22 May 2009 - 06:58 AM
Dunno, Goons...that might be worth more than Clicked the link to have a look, saw round...hex...gray...CLEAR?? Perhaps there is some real potential in this place, it'll be interesting to see what the actual PVC is like compared to some of what we are using. Seems it might be a little like closed cell foams (EVA popper heads) where everyones recipe and product is a bit different.
I don't understand the techie jargon used to describe these things or how it relates to product characteristics. Feel free to describe here for folks like me when the goods arrive.
Just finished epoxy coats on some glider/jerks made of PVC, these I decided to "etch" a scale pattern in the body with some old brass popper coring tubes. Washed with acrylics and wiped, it outlines the etching very nicely and has a 3D effect under the epoxy. A few deep ones, but nothing major against smoothness. Shoulda done gill plates with a bigger tube, definately next time, perhaps an inset eye and epoxy drop over it to see if it has a disappear effect on angled viewing. Or spots like that, the extreme bouyancy does open some doors to stupid experiments with less fear of killing the action or water absorbtion.
Good material and easy to mod.
Posted 22 May 2009 - 09:13 AM
I did a quick check on the site, and the PVC they sell seems to be pure, with specific gravity of between 1.35 and 1.6.
I think that means they are heavier than the water they displace, and will sink, but I'm not sure.
Posted 23 May 2009 - 04:15 AM
Out of curiosity here, what is your experience with regard to action and densities >1? All I've ever done in this area is with material that has densities of <1, so I can only guess what a sinker would do. Now bizarre hybrid lures and various darting flies/jigs work pretty well at sinker densities (all material) for me, but shape plays a big role here.
Good note there, Mark, I didn't see that and assumed that the PVC was a floating variety.
Has anyone ever built plugs with all material that is actually heavier than water? Recall a few oak threads and heavy woods that had lame glider or crankbait action, but those are a bit different principles to chase there. Occurs to me that a "plug material" of such density lends itself more to spoon or spoonplug type principles, but that's just speculation. IOW, and ironwood crank may suck and have diminished action (if any), but perhaps a body shape more reminiscent of spoons and chatters could behave differently?
I do use a darter/dogwalk jig that I've made with everything from wool, epoxy, hotmelt, even soldered blades and the heavier material does intrigue me. Rather like some slopehead floaters, but the upsidedown reverse with a nicer walk, wobble fall, and a spoon swim on the steady retrieve. Proportion and balance is the puzzle, but I just may try it with some of these heavy PVC's is the price and availiblity is kind.
Posted 23 May 2009 - 07:41 AM
Jrav, very good question. So good, it really deserves a thread of its own.
There is no real difference going negative buoyancy, other than the lure sinks when you stop. As density increases, inertia increases. How important this is, depends on the type of lure that you are designing. But, no matter how dense the material, you still need some ballast to hold a vertical attitude. Often the hooks and split rings are enough to achieve this.
Often and I include myself in this, we are too quick to write off denser materials, but they do have there place in the tackle box. I have only built cranks so far, plus a couple of swimbaits. For lively cranks with a wide ‘X’ing action, density is important. The body has to change direction as many as 6 times per second and inertia becomes a big problem. BUT, the object is not necessarily to get the widest action possible, sometimes a little subtlety is the winner of the day. It all depends on the mood of the fish.
Other types of lure work great with the heavier woods. Swimbaits are one of them. Most swimbaits are designed to be close to neutral buoyancy, so there is little point in starting out with light balsa. If you did, the chances are that you would fail, because too much keel weight would prevent roll. Swimbaits need some roll in order to work. Heavier materials are an advantage in swimbaits because less ballast is required. The construction is crowded and complex enough as it is, without having to accommodate two ounces of lead.
Another type of bait that works fine with heavier materials (from what I gather from reading TU posts) are what I call the single action baits. You might call them gliders, jerk baits, twitch baits etc. They operate with sudden pulls or twitches and then glide to a halt, ready for the next cycle. The denser material means the weight is evenly distributed, this helps in the glide, as the moving body has inertia, which enables it to glide further. This results in a strong ‘walk the dog’ action. The same V forces are in operation as for cranks or swimbaits, only as a single shot. In fact, it has been demonstrated in many of the videos, what happens when you twitch a swimbait. The lure turns through 90° and in some cases as much as 180°. The same turning forces used for ‘walk the dog”, except the swimbait cannot glide.
One of my favorites is the ‘S’ shaped spoon. These steel monsters seem to defy physics with an extremely wide ‘X’ing action. I am still trying to figure out how they work.
We all have a lot to learn and discover. We have a few members who are happy to throw caution to the wind and try something outrageous, in the name of progress and discovery. I also understand that many of you cannot, as you are tied up with trying to meet orders as professionals. I think just about all of you have thought, “I wonder if….” At some time or other. When you get those thoughts, you should build it and answer the question.
You can always PM me, if you need any help with the ideas. Don’t worry, I have enough ideas of my own to build, without stealing others. Apologies for the digression.
Posted 24 May 2009 - 05:54 AM
Thanks for the insight, Vodkaman, and we'll likely see a few future threads on higher density PVC's and others once experiments get going. Just lucky with gliders and dogwalks I guess...my first run, slob-jobs are behaving well with whatever I do them with be it light wood, oak dowel, or bouyant PVC. Bass caught, but that's stillwater bass.
My big curiosity now is the river application and that begs for a bit more sinkabilty, especially with regard to typical smallmouth sizes I use. The oak dowel darters got the moves, but even with that heavier wood, the ballast doesn't sink it well and there's only so much room for even tungsten weights. The attactiveness of >1 extends a bit to structural integrity as well, the hardness and stiffness required for smaller lures is an asset. With the expanded foam I currently have, there's a limit to how little material I'm comfortable with for durabilty. Great for fattish lures, but just not the stuff for a narrower tail. Think sluggo or senko shaped hardbaits, you'll see what I mean. Couple that shape with ballasting issues and we got some mighty thin areas of material to rely on under stress. Expanded foam is not all that rigid and strong, at least on one piece lures.
For kicks and to see the practicality of working with the hard. dense plastics the next project is with some cutting board material at around 8-10mm thick. Not PVC, but it'll hold a screw eye and no problem on structural integrity even when ballasting cavities are dremeled. If it's tolerable, I'll take a shot at the some of the stuff Goonsdad is playin' with, perhaps even start a thread with some pictures if I get a camera.
Rather cool twist, this >1 thing, kinda opens up material possibilties that I never thought of as useful. Once again, roaming about the dwelling looking for new things to hack a lure out of:eek: