always failed in sinking crank,help!!!
56 replies to this topic
Posted 11 April 2009 - 06:12 PM
OK , exactly , ........an "S" shaped swimming motion , that's it !
..........But I guess , that probably we might get a little more and more off topic with our discussion:? ?
But if I think over it properly ,.........if I had made these lure models , which are rather flat-bodied , of a little more dense kinda wood , they would not have required as much ballast to let them sink(or just float up in case of "Rolf's Wiggler)) the same manner as they do now !
As a result their bellies would swing sideward a little more on a constant pull , thus that "S"-pattern would become wider from peak to peak of the wave .
But on the other hand , .......if the ballast would be too small , the lure might just lay on its side on a pull and not swing back for the "S" pattern anymore , one needs to find a happy compromise .
greetz , diemai:yay:
Posted 11 April 2009 - 06:51 PM
Sorry to get a little off topic but the point I was trying to make is denser wood does have some action to them, not as much as a more bouyant baits but they do have action. If you have to add so much weight to a more bouyant bait to get it to sink you have killed all the positive action thatthe bouyant bait has, thus no purpose in the more bouyant bait.If you have two of thesame baits but made of different material and they sink at the same rate, one bait isnt more bouyant as the other.The positive to me with the denser wood is that the desity is displaced throughout the whole bait instead of an anchor in the belly of a bait.Now I might be wrong in saying this I would like to here some comments. I really dont know exactly how to write this, Imight need vodkaman to help me,but the two baits are the same volume in size and it takesthe same mass to get them both to sink at the same rate. Its just one has the majority of the weight in the belly killing the action.
Posted 12 April 2009 - 09:08 AM
@swede: I've tried your advise about lure without lead..but it wont work at all.when i put it on the water it's always laying flat on the surface and spinning if i retrieve them....
@diemai: your idea about sharing the weight and put them on the tail work pretty good. even thought i didn't put the share right on tail but just lil bit behind belly hook.(doesn't have much space for the lead on the tail.... it's too small)
but still...this is not sinking lure just diving but I'm very happy n satisfy with the action specially in slow retrieve:yay:
one question again diemai: if I really put the share on the tail..is the action will increase? if yes maybe i should change my body design, to make more space in the tail
Posted 12 April 2009 - 01:11 PM
Siniyo can you post a picture of the lure you´re having problems with? Might be easier to help you if we know the shape of the lure
Posted 12 April 2009 - 02:06 PM
I have made many sinking lures, though they are always large musky lures 5" in length or more. I have never added any weight, except that of the hooks and hardware. I use a denser wood (oak or maple around here) which still floats. Just put a few more coats of clear on, a good heavy thick epoxy like etex.
I simply take the same bait that works as a floating bait and add a couple more coats of etex. Nothing radical. You wouldn't even know the difference just by looking.
I haven't experimented with smaller baits, so maybe this only works on larger ones because the mass of the epoxy is enough to overcome the buoyancy. If absolutely necessary, add a small amount of lead at approximately the "pivot point" in the bait, if that makes sense, the point of the bait that moves side to side the least in the natural course of the bait's action.
Hope this helps. Might just be a fluke that it works for me, i haven't had enough years of experience to know for sure, so it might just have been luck, but it has been consistent.
Posted 12 April 2009 - 02:34 PM
A picture of your lure would really help !
In general I have made the experience , that weight in the tail(belly side) of a minnow-shaped lure minors the wobble or even kills it entirely .
On such lures the weight most likely is located between lip and belly hook hanger and/or shortly behind , but this is only a rule of thumb , surely there are always exceptions to the rule !
greetz , diemai:yay:
Posted 12 April 2009 - 07:05 PM
Sinyo lets start over, what kind of wood is easily available to you. Need to know of few dense woods and a few more bouyant wood , and from here we all can help out on a good start. Then we can try making two baits one with the top best choices ( if you want) and see what happens.If you can print off and post a drawing of this bait so others , (maybe a few of us who has this same wood available) can help build and work in finding the best results.I think this will be a fun group project, if anyone is interested.
Posted 13 April 2009 - 06:42 AM
I never expected intentions like this before...thx guys
this is my earliest project that I told to U in post #43
I have made 15 blank body with in this shape and already experimenting in 4 of them by adding some lead in various location
but location seen in this picture is the best so far
lead dimensions I used in this lure is :3mm---diameters, 5mm(front hole) 3mm(back hole)---length
I don't have electric scale, so I don't know exactly how much the weight of the lead...for experimenting I only used dimensions like that
@jamie:if U asked what wood available here? it so many too mentioned it one by one,
U know Ind:bull:sia is in 2nd place behind brazil in the number of forrest n top rank in illegal loging:lol:
but in this lure I used [FONT="]Guazuma ulmifolia Lamk[/FONT][FONT="]
because it's cheap, easy to find n shape
this woods also called:
warm regards, Sinyo
Posted 13 April 2009 - 07:10 AM
Siniyo have you tried other lips on the lure? Sometimes a too big lip can kill the action on small lures .Try to place the linetie lower towards the lip or even on the lip .
Posted 13 April 2009 - 07:35 AM
once i change bigger size lip.. like you said it kill the action
but i don't try smaller lip because I want my lure to dive to the bottom of pool
do you think that lip is too big?
Posted 13 April 2009 - 07:50 AM
Siniyo if you make the lip narrower it will still dive deep .You could cup it like Hazmail have shown in some of his tutorials this will help in giving the lure action .
Posted 13 April 2009 - 09:53 PM
Sinyo are your still trying to make a sinking lure?
Usually to make a sinking lure you want to start with a floating type but have the lure either floating horizontal or slightly nose down. Then gradually add weight to the balancing point until it sinks at the rate you want. Next step mod the lip size or add a slight cup to compensate for the lost in action if needed. You do not need a lip to make a sinking lure dive. The lip in this case is just needed to make the lure dig in and provide the wiggle. You "sink" the lure to it's working depth.
Posted 14 April 2009 - 04:54 AM
I think I make little mistake here...the photo on post#48 is not my failed sinking lure..it's work good but float
it's related to my question to Diemai in post#43 and in post#46 he request this photo to look the possibility If I move the 2nd lead to the tail
sorry if I'm causing confusion to all of you
@LaPala:yes sir but that's not my 1st priority...right now I just want to make lure with best action whatever the type...I'm still collecting tips n trick from all of you before I try to make sinking lure again
warm regards, Sinyo
Posted 14 April 2009 - 08:10 AM
You wrote somewhere before , that you want your lure to go down to the bottom , so check this out(If you haven't done it before ?) :
Look for post #5 .
This is the lip/line tie configuration to achieve deeper diving lures , but you need to put more weight as I did there(that one turned out very buoyant , thus doesn't run too deep) , also you could make the lip longer an/or pointing more forward .
Just mean to show the general construction , you still need to tinker about your own designs:yes: !
good luck , diemai:yay:
Posted 14 April 2009 - 09:03 AM
Haha okay Sinyo. And that is a good idea. Stick to one and get it to work and perform as you plan for it to. Jumping from one to another before you get one right will not teach you as much as if you build to death one single lure type.
Posted 15 April 2009 - 10:49 AM
finally I got it work......
wow it's so amazing...all my problem happen just because I didn't notice old advice from Vman in my first thread(Diemai post n picture remind me about that)...it's all about line tie
when I pull the wire until touching lip surface all my lure work great
even for the sinking one....(sink accidentally by base coat)
@LP: I just try it in the bath tub using slightly cup lip...the action is amazing it's so wild...now I'm afraid the fish will run away because the action is very aggressive:lol:
thanks for all of you who help me solving this problem,
specially for Vman,Diemai,LaPala,Jamie,Swede and the other member which I can't mention it one by one.
Posted 15 April 2009 - 06:05 PM
Sinyo Its amazing there is a fine line of weight that makes a bait sink(your clear coat) and one that will slowly float to the surface. I thought your line tie was a little high also. The biggest problem when you build smaller baits is the little mistakes that you make are magnified and cause bigger problems.Smaller baits are harder to tune and im glad I musky fish , because the baits are 6 inches or better and I can get away with alot more imperfections than you can. Anyway im glad you finally got your bait running.