lukich

Parasitic glider action

16 posts in this topic

Frequently double action is underlined as advantage of a jerkbait.

For example the diver with glider action .

I sometimes face with a problem that glider has parasitic action of the diver.

I want to make good glider, but it at jerk pecks nose downwards.

Because of it the glide length is reduced and rate of retrieve is slowed down.

Photo of a lure - an example from the last.

I tried, to load a tail of lure. The lure works better but at sharp jerks all the same pecks nose downwards.

The problem disappears in the form of a lure.

I have noticed such law - if the lure on uniform retrieve has no own game that it does not peck downwards.

Lure which have on equal retrieve rolling over with a side sideways slow game just suffer it.

Share the reasons - what form should have good for glider, and what forms will be obviously erroneous.

_______________________________________________________________

Dmitry *************

Russia,

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Edited by redg8r
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@ lukich

I won't neccessarely consider it as a disadvantage , if a glider jerkbait darts downward on a jerk , I'd most likely want my lures to run deeper !

I see on your pictures , that you use wire eyelets on your lures , .....just try to bend the line tie a bit downward on one lure and test for action ,.......probably you would see a little change !

It is an interesting statement of yours , that such lures having no action on a straight retrieve would not dart downward on a jerk ,...... but others , that DO have a built-in action(most likely a more or less pronounced "wave-pattern , I suppose) on straight retrieve WOULD dart downward on a jerk !

Would have to do a lot with the body shape(deep-bellied or long/slender) and , of course , also the location of the tow eye .

greetz:yay: , diemai

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dmitry what kind of wood are you useing. From the looks of how much ballest you are useing it must be a very bouyant. I make a glider very close to your shape, but i find you need to use a more dense wood to get a good glide.The problem you get is when useing a bouyant wood is you have to use so much lead to get the bait to sink it kills the action.I use oak and maple for my gliders and the weight of the bait is more distributed throughout the whole bait, and the ballast is used to make the bait slowly sink and stay upright.Think of what a balsa crank does when you over load the belly with weight ,it will kill the action and it wont have a good wobble.The same goes for a glider if you overload the weight in the belly you just killed the glide. A proper shaped and weighted glider ( in my opinion )should have a natural swim to it on a staight retrieve., a wave action to it.You can take the same shape of a glider and use two different wood and get two different actions. If you take two woods one bouyant and one dense and you cut the same shape out and weight them to sink at the same rate they will weight the sameon the scale, but the difference is where the majority of the weight in the bait . More bouyant baits are going to be bottom heavy and the the more dense woods weight is more evenly distibuted throughout the whole bait and thats what makes the difference.

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@diemai

In this case I did not want that the bait went more deeply.

I wanted that it went on equal horizon.

Bait with zero buoyancy.

I tried to turn in forvard eye, seen changes have not taken place.

@jamie

I use a different tree.

Density from 0,4 up to 0,75 g/cm3

On this bait the linden is used.

Density of a tree 0,4-0,5 and after impregnation approximately 0,6

Not always evently distribution of weight on a bait plays a positive role.

If the centre of gravity rises above, on jerk there are belly flash action, and glider action considerably worsens.

I achieved excellent gliders from a tree a hornbeam, its density 0,75 and after impregnation even is higher 0,8.

But the form of these lures was symmetric and round for example similar to Viper.

And the same hornbeam on the similar form resulted to belly flash action.

I investigated distribution of weight to the some jerkbait the similar form.

Plastic SAVAGEAR frestiler it is very similar under the form to this form and it works perfectly, for it the centre of gravity displacement from the geometrical center downwards on 1/6 its heights.

It is a lot of, the weight is considerably concentrated in the bottom part of a bait.

Such it is possible to achieve only applying the easiest trees.

Dmitry

Russia

Edited by lukich

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Dmirty when I was talking about useing a more dense wood for more evenly distributed weighting its still bottom heavy because of the ballast weight thats being used.Its just its not as bottom heavy as the more bouyant with ballast.With the bait that I make thats looks like the one you doing the bait has two drilled holes filled with lead ,and thats it(bait is made with oak).I have made lead ballast shaped like dowel plugs that fits the holes that ive predrilled.Those baits have a great glide and near neutral bouyancy.I have another question for you do you use a leader on your baits. This can help and hurt the action of your bait also. Sometimes the weight of the leader is enough to make a bait nose heavy and ballast is needed to compensate. The positive to the action the leader gives it will jumpstart your baits glide. With the first pull the bait will pass the leader up in the water and cause a pivot point( the leader connection to the bait) and on the second pull you are actually turning the bait slightly backwards and to the side causeing the first step in a glide. You also talked of the plastic baits that you looked at what is the density of the plastic, I bet you that ( depending on what type of plastic)its density is greater than more bouyant wood. I have been useing alumilite and its density is great than water and has a nice slow sink to it.Featherlite on the other hand wants to float.

Edited by jamie

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I tried to change balancing, it has not given effect.

I have a little changed the form of the same lure, have made sharper a forward part and have more strongly rounded off edges on a back.

In result parasitic action has essentially decreased.

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I would try moving the line tie to the underside of the mouth, like a carp's mouth.

That way, the force of the jerk on the line will start the head up, not down.

Line tie location is critical on surface gliders, which I make, so it might be on sub surface gliders, which I do not make.

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mark poulson I agree with you.

As the basic weight of a lure it is concentrated in bottom, turning moment directing a forward part of a lure downwards is created at jerk.

Forward eye on my lure big and I tried to turn in it, but I have not noticed essential difference.

I shall try to repeat this experiment still.

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I would try moving the line tie to the underside of the mouth, like a carp's mouth.

That way, the force of the jerk on the line will start the head up, not down.

Line tie location is critical on surface gliders, which I make, so it might be on sub surface gliders, which I do not make.

Mark the line tie is fine on this bait. About 90% of what I make is glide baits and the problem is too much ballast. You take that same shape and make it out of oak with two 1/2 oz shots (1/2 oz in each of two holes)on a six or 7 inch bait and you will be close. Then fine tune with removing or adding a little shot to find neutral bouyancy.A glider should slice its way through the water with least amount of resistance. If you have any drag it really slows the action down.Moving the line tie under will cause a less desired effect on a sub- glider.

Edited by jamie

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About 90% of what I make is glide baits and the problem is too much ballast.

My lures have neutral bouyancy. Also I tried to change a ballast on this bait and made its slowly sinking or on the contrary with small positive buoyancy. I moved a ballast to a back part of a lure but it also has not given result. Correction of the form has given essential effect.

Milled holes for a ballast are made specially for the maximal displacement of a ballast downwards for suppression of rocking of a bait at jerk.

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Jamie,

That's interestiong. I've been thinking of making a sub-surface glider out of PVC.

It's buoyant, but not as buoyant as poplar, so it might be a good choice for one.

I'll let you know if I get one started, so you can help me with the ballast placement.

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Jamie,

That's interestiong. I've been thinking of making a sub-surface glider out of PVC.

It's buoyant, but not as buoyant as poplar, so it might be a good choice for one.

I'll let you know if I get one started, so you can help me with the ballast placement.

Mark just let me know. Ive been putting off useing pvc( dont know why) and I would also like to see how effective this product would be. Mark once you throw and learn how the bait moves you can really manipulate them through cover like downed trees and weed pockets. We catch nice sized bass while working these baits for musky in downed timber.Gliders is my favorite bait of choice and look forward when the right situation comes to use them.

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Jamie,

Are there any basics as to shape and weighting? I would be making one that simulates a shad, about 4", and one like a juvenile trout, about 7". I am also thinking about a silver one, for low light conditions.

I've looked at the gliders in the gallery, and they don't seem too hard to shape.

Of course, nothing is hard until you try it. :lol:

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Dmitry. Pardon me for butchering your picture but I am trying to overcome the language barrier.

I have had similar problems with jerk baits lately and as a lot of the replies are saying it has a lot to do with the tow point and buoyancy.

I would add more ballast all over, but mainly in the bottom to give a greater spread of 'mass' - with a high tow point and the bottom being heavier it (bottom of lure) responds later when pulled forward, causing the nose to dip down - Also lower the tow eye which will lower the pivot point and reduce the leverage ratio.pete

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Jamie,

Are there any basics as to shape and weighting? I would be making one that simulates a shad, about 4", and one like a juvenile trout, about 7". I am also thinking about a silver one, for low light conditions.

I've looked at the gliders in the gallery, and they don't seem too hard to shape.

Of course, nothing is hard until you try it. :lol:

That shad pattern is a great shape for gliders.A friend of mine makes a nice 4 inch shad glider made from 1/2 inch oak board from an old pallet he found at work.One thing to remember is longer the bait the wider the bait needs to be. The seven inch bait you were talking of would work with a 3/4 inch board. I like a sharp nose on my gliders it helps the water flow around the bait. Think of it like a v-hull boat if you are pulling nose first it slips throught he water with little effort. Now if you have a blunt nosed bait it like trying to drag the boat backwards, There is a lot more drag and water will not flow easily around the shape of the transom( you can still get it where it needs to go but there is alot more work involved).Im not saying a blunt nosed bait wont glide but there is more work involved on the bait to make it work.Mark as far as weighting a glider you have to play with the weight position to get a horizontal or flat lay in the water, the shape determines where the lead goes.And as far as a silver I just love foil on gliders thats just my :twocents:. Gliders should slip through the water column gracefully with little effort( once again this is all just my opinion, Im sure someone will think different)

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Dmitry. Pardon me for butchering your picture but I am trying to overcome the language barrier.

I have had similar problems with jerk baits lately and as a lot of the replies are saying it has a lot to do with the tow point and buoyancy.

I would add more ballast all over, but mainly in the bottom to give a greater spread of 'mass' - with a high tow point and the bottom being heavier it (bottom of lure) responds later when pulled forward, causing the nose to dip down - Also lower the tow eye which will lower the pivot point and reduce the leverage ratio.pete

Pete I think if I was going to try to reposition the weight I would go for less holes and go alittle deeper in the bait and try not to go past the center of gravity. put the weight from the bottom of the bait to almost center gravity with less holes ( like a lead dowel plug to fill the hole). This might work and it might not

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